Fifth Frontier War

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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby AdrianH » Mon May 28, 2012 11:50 am

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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby Dunia » Tue May 29, 2012 1:28 am

Mytholder wrote:Thinking out loud - I'd do a FFW adventure path as a series of one-shots interspersed with a continuing narrative. You create your PCs at the start of the campaign as the crew, I dunno, an Imperial recon ship of a few hundred tons or something - enough to have a military command structure, but not so big as to be unmanageable. Then, you alternate between their adventures and events elsewhere that affect them,which play out as one-shots with customisable pregens. So, one adventure might be a really big battle (and you're playing as a team of Zhodani saboteurs trying to break into an Imperial station), followed by a smaller-scale adventure where the regular PCs are sent to oversee the evacuation of a world following the Zho victory.

Make it feel almost like a historical documentary. Draw inspiration from World War Z, the old FFW board game and so on.

I would rather see a book where i can take my player group through the FFW and not just create new characters for my players. They have played the same characetrs for almost a year now and deserve to be able to play them through FFW.
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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby IanW » Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:58 am

Just as a quick side note ...

Our Heroes' tramp freighter is pressed into Naval service as an auxilary ("Oh, according to our records you are two payments behind. Just be a good chap and show your bank this document, will you ? I'd hate them to trouble you now you're working for us"). The ex-Scout is congratulated on his successful return from Detatched Duty, and issued with a Type S and a list of Outsystem supply caches across the subsector.

Our Heroes are then expected to visit them, and make sure they are all intact and have the supplies they need.

I mean, what could possibly go wrong ?
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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby Captain Jonah » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:35 am

The Fifth started with increased pirate raids, more ships vanishing, stand offs and minor battles between patrols.

Characters in the Marches could be involved in the pre war action without even realising what is going on. Those pirates could be normal corsairs or they could be sword worlders, puppies or Imperial renegades acting on orders.

That strange, tall dark stranger that hired the characters to smuggle a 1Dton container onto that world may have been just a normal criminal and not a Zho agent bring weapons to Ine Givar cells.

For months before the serious fighting started things were happening.

The official start of the war was when a long delayed courier made it to the fleet base on Regina I believe to report a huge Zho fleet in the demilitarised zone. Going from memory there were 6 months of “Action” before this point as early raids, probes and agents on spoiler missions were happening.

But before that and even for a while after that things were happening without anyone on the Imperial side knowing they were at war.


The following is from Donald Mckinney and is a huge timeline. Go to the fifth frontier war section and see just how many cannon and non cannon adventures are set around the war and its events.

Oh and if anyone Knows who Donald is thank him for his work here.


http://dmckinne.winterwar.org/pdfs/Trav ... meline.pdf
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

ACTA-SF: Who are we, GORN. What do we want, Cruisers that can turn.... Wait, OK Escorts... Wait. I'll get back to you !
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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby locarno24 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:56 am

I mean, what could possibly go wrong ?
That's one of those phrases which, I've noticed, causes involuntary twitching in players I GM for. Almost as bad as 'It's purely ceremonial duty'.
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.
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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby donm61873 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:57 pm

Captain Jonah wrote:The following is from Donald Mckinney and is a huge timeline. Go to the fifth frontier war section and see just how many cannon and non cannon adventures are set around the war and its events.

Oh and if anyone Knows who Donald is thank him for his work here.


http://dmckinne.winterwar.org/pdfs/Trav ... meline.pdf
I'm the same Don McKinney who wrote the Zhodani book. 8)
And I collect errata. I'm also probably insane, but it's the good kind.

Thanks, I'm glad you have found the timeline useful. Someday, I'll get back to that tome.
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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby Captain Jonah » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:03 pm

donm61873 wrote:
Captain Jonah wrote:The following is from Donald Mckinney and is a huge timeline. Go to the fifth frontier war section and see just how many cannon and non cannon adventures are set around the war and its events.

Oh and if anyone Knows who Donald is thank him for his work here.


http://dmckinne.winterwar.org/pdfs/Trav ... meline.pdf
I'm the same Don McKinney who wrote the Zhodani book. 8)
And I collect errata. I'm also probably insane, but it's the good kind.

Thanks, I'm glad you have found the timeline useful. Someday, I'll get back to that tome.
Hey we are all insane or we wouldn't be here. :lol:

Very good work on the time line :mrgreen:
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

ACTA-SF: Who are we, GORN. What do we want, Cruisers that can turn.... Wait, OK Escorts... Wait. I'll get back to you !
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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby Hans Rancke » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:41 pm

MrUkpyr wrote:
ShawnDriscoll wrote:One thing I would LOVE to see is how Norris got his Imperial Warrant!
He sent an appeal to the Emperor some years before the war, explaining that he saw a new frontier war looming but that Duchess Delphine and her cronies in the Sector High Command disagreed and were woefully unprepared, and asking for a warrant.

Strephon sent him a warrant on a light cruiser detached for courier duty (Imperial warrants are powerful documents; you don't just leave them lying around in small escorts patrolling the fringes, you know :wink:). The cruiser got into trouble and went down on Algine. There was considerable confusion and Norris was not quite sure what had happened or even if there had been a warrant in the first place.

Eventually Norris decided to take a chance and follow some rumors to Algine. He got into some sort of trouble there (deduced from the fact that he was away for two years; he could have fetched a new warrant from Capital in that time! :roll: ). Then he returned and used the warrant to take over.

Everything above is based on canon sources. An idea of my own (and this is totally non-canon) is that Norris retrieved the warrant from the wreck of the cruiser, some Bad Guys stole it from him, it got destroyed in an attempt to recover it, and Norris faked another one. But that's just me.


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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby daryen » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:04 pm

Hans Rancke wrote:Everything above is based on canon sources. An idea of my own (and this is totally non-canon) is that Norris retrieved the warrant from the wreck of the cruiser, some Bad Guys stole it from him, it got destroyed in an attempt to recover it, and Norris faked another one. But that's just me.
I would prefer not to have Norris fake the warrant. Canon already has him doing that in the Rebellion, and if he did it twice, it would be an unnecessary repetition. I would rather him just either get delayed/captured by the locals, or have to play cat-n-mouse with undercover agents of the Duchess.

Also, do realize that, even though the story you repeated is indeed the initial story (and I agree with using it), it was later revised to state that the warrant retrieved was the one from CT Adventure 1 in Shionthy. I think that is ridiculous, but that is the last statement and what (if I am remembering correctly) is endorsed by MWM. (Of course, none of that stopped 1248:Spinward States from going back to the Algine warrant.)
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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby Hans Rancke » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:19 pm

daryen wrote:
Hans Rancke wrote:Everything above is based on canon sources. An idea of my own (and this is totally non-canon) is that Norris retrieved the warrant from the wreck of the cruiser, some Bad Guys stole it from him, it got destroyed in an attempt to recover it, and Norris faked another one. But that's just me.
I would prefer not to have Norris fake the warrant. Canon already has him doing that in the Rebellion, and if he did it twice, it would be an unnecessary repetition. I would rather him just either get delayed/captured by the locals, or have to play cat-n-mouse with undercover agents of the Duchess.
It's to explain an entry in his personal diary (in Survival Margin) where he talks of having done it before.
Also, do realize that, even though the story you repeated is indeed the initial story (and I agree with using it), it was later revised to state that the warrant retrieved was the one from CT Adventure 1 in Shionthy. I think that is ridiculous, but that is the last statement and what (if I am remembering correctly) is endorsed by MWM. (Of course, none of that stopped 1248:Spinward States from going back to the Algine warrant.)
Even Marc Miller cannot decree a complete breach with logic. The Kinunir could not have been carrying a warrant for Norris when it disappeared in 1088 because Norris wasn't duke in 1088. Now, if Marc Miller decrees that the Kinunir didn't disappear until 1104, it might be made to work, though I'd still want to know how and why the warrant got aboard a small local escort on routine patrol. Oh, and why in 1107 he felt it necessary to go away for two years before using his warrant if he had had it since it was recovered in 1105.


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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby donm61873 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:33 pm

Actually, there's some simple explanation here, I've been over this with Marc.

There are three separate warrants being discussed here.

1. The first warrant that Norris faked. That warrant, which I may not discuss at this time, dates from before he became Duke of Regina. Ask me about it in private. IF I get around to writing a followup book to Zhodani, we might just bring that out in the open.

2. The warrant on the Kinunir. First, let's make clear that it doesn't really read as stupidly as the warrant reads in the CT adventure book -- that was intended as an example. Second, it is not the same as the warrant Norris uses to take over. Perhaps someday we'll see an adventure detailing that warrant -- but remember that it must date from before the Kinunir was lost.

3. The warrant Norris used. Ok, that's a third adventure, separate from the ones above.

Yes, there's been some confusion. Yes, Marc has gotten them confused in the past (he's not perfect, and contrary to what some may claim, does NOT have canon memorized and constantly at his fingertips).

This post is intended for clarification only: there are three separate warrants that can be discussed, and I think I've gone as far as I can with that, unless I want to get plunged into writing another book. Also, Marc reserves the right to change his mind again and then what I just wrote would be wrong. :twisted:
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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby Egil Skallagrimsson » Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:04 pm

Captain Jonah wrote:
donm61873 wrote:
Captain Jonah wrote:The following is from Donald Mckinney and is a huge timeline. Go to the fifth frontier war section and see just how many cannon and non cannon adventures are set around the war and its events.

Oh and if anyone Knows who Donald is thank him for his work here.


http://dmckinne.winterwar.org/pdfs/Trav ... meline.pdf
I'm the same Don McKinney who wrote the Zhodani book. 8)
And I collect errata. I'm also probably insane, but it's the good kind.

Thanks, I'm glad you have found the timeline useful. Someday, I'll get back to that tome.
Hey we are all insane or we wouldn't be here. :lol:

Very good work on the time line :mrgreen:
Seconded, especially the bit about the timeline. As someone who only came to Trav and 3I two years ago, I was pretty confused about how it all slotted together, then someone put up a link to the timeline, and suddenly it all became much clearer.

Also very impressed with the Zhodani book.

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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby daryen » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:24 pm

donm61873 wrote:1. The first warrant that Norris faked. That warrant, which I may not discuss at this time, dates from before he became Duke of Regina. Ask me about it in private. IF I get around to writing a followup book to Zhodani, we might just bring that out in the open.

2. The warrant on the Kinunir. First, let's make clear that it doesn't really read as stupidly as the warrant reads in the CT adventure book -- that was intended as an example. Second, it is not the same as the warrant Norris uses to take over. Perhaps someday we'll see an adventure detailing that warrant -- but remember that it must date from before the Kinunir was lost.

3. The warrant Norris used. Ok, that's a third adventure, separate from the ones above.
Unless one of these covers the warrant from the Rebellion, then you have just created a new one, meaning there are four warrants in play.

Thus far, prior to your new understanding, there are three warrants that are in print and listed in canon:
- The Shionthy/Kinunir warrant.
- The Algine warrant.
- The Archduchal warrant.

Of those, the third one (promoting Norris to Archduke) was known (to us) to be faked. The other two were supposed to be real warrants (though the Kinunir one was also blank).

Now, you are adding a brand new one to the mix. Are actually implying that not only did Norris fake a warrant to get his promotion to archduke, but he faked a warrant to be promoted to duke also? Regardless, now Norris has actually faked at least two warrants. How many warrants does he fake in the end?

And he is a good guy! Imagine the damage that could be done if someone evil figured out how to fake warrants as effectively as Norris!
Yes, there's been some confusion. Yes, Marc has gotten them confused in the past (he's not perfect, and contrary to what some may claim, does NOT have canon memorized and constantly at his fingertips).
I (at least) never meant anything particularly negative about my observations. Just that I thought he picked the wrong one. Which, incidentally, is more than his right.
This post is intended for clarification only: there are three separate warrants that can be discussed, and I think I've gone as far as I can with that, unless I want to get plunged into writing another book. Also, Marc reserves the right to change his mind again and then what I just wrote would be wrong.
Again, I can't speak to your "new knowledge" on the subject. The above I outlined is what exists in the game history today. While this is always subject to change with no notice, the three warrants above are the current situation today, and they don't match up with your list. That means you are effectively saying there are at least four (if not more) warrants now.
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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby donm61873 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:32 pm

daryen wrote:Unless one of these covers the warrant from the Rebellion, then you have just created a new one, meaning there are four warrants in play.
Yes, the third one was the one from the Rebellion... I should have written:

"3. The warrant Norris used to make himself an archduke. Ok, that's a third adventure, separate from the ones above."

I read your post in a panic three times before I realized your first sentence. Sigh...


And canon confusion happens this easily today. Imagine what it must have been like between GDW and DGP before e-mail and word processing.
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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby daryen » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:19 pm

donm61873 wrote:"3. The warrant Norris used to make himself an archduke. Ok, that's a third adventure, separate from the ones above."

I read your post in a panic three times before I realized your first sentence. Sigh...
OK, good. Though I am still not thrilled with Norris faking more than one warrant, it is good to see there aren't any more showing up anytime soon.
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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby Hans Rancke » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:46 am

donm61873 wrote:
daryen wrote:Unless one of these covers the warrant from the Rebellion, then you have just created a new one, meaning there are four warrants in play.
Yes, the third one was the one from the Rebellion... I should have written:

"3. The warrant Norris used to make himself an archduke. Ok, that's a third adventure, separate from the ones above."
I make it four warrants (Except that the Rebellion fakery wasn't a warrant, it was a document elevating Norris to Archduke).

1. The first warrant Norris faked, which you just told us about; something that happened before he became a duke. This is a new one. It's purpose is (as I understand it) to explain his otherwise cryptic diary entry in Survival Margin about having faked something before. (My copy of Survival Margin is AWOL, so I can't check, but IIRC he mentions the 5FW in that connection, but I suppose I must be wrong).

2. The warrant on the Kinunir. It has nothing to do with Norris. It is recovered in 1105 and (presumably) either destroyed or returned to Strephon. At least, that's what I'd require be done for any stray warrant if I was Strephon. Norris didn't fake this one.

3. Norris' warrant from Strephon that he fetched from Algine and used to take over the conduct of the 5FW. This one is genuine, so Norris didn't fake it.

4. The fake elevation to Archduke during the Rebellion. This was, according to the diary, the second time Norris faked something. The first one wasn't the Kinunir Warrant, because he never had anything to do with it, and it wasn't the Algine Warrant, because that one was genuine.

One, two, three, four...


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Re: Fifth Frontier War

Postby donm61873 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:57 am

Hans Rancke wrote:One, two, three, four...
Hmm... that sounds right, sadly. And of course Marc reserves his right to decide otherwise, but that's the way I understand it at the moment.

Of course, my biggest worry for warrants was always the way the one in the Kinunir was written, like it was a bearer instrument. I'm told that was never intended to be how a real warrant would be written.
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