Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionnaire

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings

Which version of the Addaxur race do you prefer and which is cannon?

The GURPS Addaxur is more interesting and is cannon.
2
7%
The GURPS Addaxur is more interesting but Mongoose is cannon.
1
4%
The Mongoose Addaxur is more interesting and is cannon.
16
57%
The Mongoose Addaxur is more interesting but GURPS is cannon.
0
No votes
I don't like either.
3
11%
No preference.
6
21%
 
Total votes: 28
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Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionnaire

Postby Solomani666 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:33 pm

The Adduxar race from GURPS "Alien Races 1" is TOTALLY different from the Adduxar race in the Mongoose "Alien Module 4". What gives? Why the change?

I am hoping someone can explain to me why such vastly different descriptions of the same race and which should be considered cannon and why?


GURPS:
Addaxur GURPS.jpg
Addaxur From GURPS Alien Races 1
Addaxur GURPS.jpg (66.61 KiB) Viewed 2062 times

Mongoose:
Addaxur Mongoose.jpg
Addaxur From Mongoose Alien Module 4
Addaxur Mongoose.jpg (91.28 KiB) Viewed 2062 times

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Re: Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionna

Postby GypsyComet » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:29 am

The Clotho are an import, and were drafted into the Addaxur spot by that author. I like them, but they are not the Addaxur and never have been.
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Re: Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionna

Postby Tobias » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:21 pm

I voted for "The Mongoose Addaxur is more interesting and is canon", but my actual stance is "The Mongoose Addaxur are more interesting but I couldn't care less which one is canon".
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Re: Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionna

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:24 pm

Damn... I hate it when the Scouts screw up their Xeno Files like that!

Obviously, the Imperial Database has become corrupted somehow and two different races are listed as being the same race (I blame the Ine Givar).

Time for a group of adventurers to go into the Consulate and figure out which race is which!

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Re: Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionna

Postby kafka » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:06 pm

And, maybe, we could be dealing with a sentient being that is capable of metamorphism? Hence both could be accurate but told from a different point of view. But, if I were to cast my vote, I liked the GURPS version more. Sorry DonM yours were too close what has already been written and GT broke the mould and gave them a true history - which is better than some of the treatment of aliens. But, then again, I never liked some of GDW aliens either...like that race of intelligent squids on Tobia...If T4 did have any merit, it did at least have different and interesting aliens.
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Re: Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionna

Postby Stainless » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:51 pm

Having helped Don with reviewing and proofing the Zhodani book, I know he's s tickler for canon. Thus, the Mongoose version is the 'original'.
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Re: Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionna

Postby Tobias » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:32 pm

kafka wrote:And, maybe, we could be dealing with a sentient being that is capable of metamorphism? Hence both could be accurate but told from a different point of view. But, if I were to cast my vote, I liked the GURPS version more. Sorry DonM yours were too close what has already been written and GT broke the mould and gave them a true history
The Clotho were one of David Pulver's Alien races which he had apparently written for his own Traveller campaign decades ago and which had been previously published for Spacemaster. I am reasonably certain they were never intended to be the Addaxur.

Generally, I don't like most of Pulver's Aliens because they rely too much on one or two schticks. Or maybe that's just the treatment they got in GT, because I noticed that previous canon races such as the Girug'kagh also got this treatment.

I like the more sketch-like, general description in MgT better. Also, I like the MgT visuals better. About the only part of MgT AM4 I found useful.
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Re: Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionna

Postby kafka » Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:57 pm

Ok, we disagree about Pulver's aliens (and yes, I know these are his Spacemaster aliens but does not defeat the point that we could be dealing with a species capable of metamorphism and hence two radically different civilizations of the same species - think what butterflies/frogs would have in common with caterpillars/tadpoles - some species of frogs actually use the latter as a food source). This could account for the Anyhow, this explaination could account for Clotho/Addaxur longevity. Traveller is all about diversity of opinions.

Only thing useful in AM4??? The whole back story of the FFW set up against the onslaught of the Empress Wave was not useful to you? I liked MgT, wished it would have contained a little more of the innovations of GT Zhodani (as that was the only GT Alien Module I liked). Wished it could have contained more - would have been my request. But that is what the supplement on the Core Expeditions/Grand Explorations could do...
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Re: Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionna

Postby GypsyComet » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:25 pm

kafka wrote:wished it would have contained a little more of the innovations of GT Zhodani (as that was the only GT Alien Module I liked). Wished it could have contained more - would have been my request. But that is what the supplement on the Core Expeditions/Grand Explorations could do...

Recall that the GT book is set in roughly 1117, on the other side of a Frontier War. Mongoose has stated before that their books are all set in 1104-1105, so some events and revelations we old fans are used to simply haven't triggered yet.
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Re: Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionna

Postby Tobias » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:34 pm

kafka wrote:Ok, we disagree about Pulver's aliens (and yes, I know these are his Spacemaster aliens but does not defeat the point that we could be dealing with a species capable of metamorphism and hence two radically different civilizations of the same species - think what butterflies/frogs would have in common with caterpillars/tadpoles - some species of frogs actually use the latter as a food source).
I see no reason to shoehorn the Clotho into my campaign at all. I don't consider them to be a very good alien race as is, even without highly implausible evolutionary coincidences based on false analogies to primitive animals.

As I wrote above, I don't really care which one is "canon", hence I see no reason to reconcile "conflicting" canon.
Only thing useful in AM4??? The whole back story of the FFW set up against the onslaught of the Empress Wave was not useful to you?.
Since IMTU the Empress Wave and Virus don't exist and I really detest these concepts: No, not at all.

I stated my opinion on MgT AM4 in an earlier thread. The gist of it: A useful product for anybody who does not have the older material which is compiled in the book and/or for anybody who agrees with the general tone and direction of the additional new material. But sadly, not for me. (With the exception of the Addaxur.)
Last edited by Tobias on Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionna

Postby Tobias » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:35 pm

GypsyComet wrote:Recall that the GT book is set in roughly 1117, on the other side of a Frontier War. Mongoose has stated before that their books are all set in 1104-1105, so some events and revelations we old fans are used to simply haven't triggered yet.
The GT Zhodani book did not contain major events or revelations as far as I recall.
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Re: Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionna

Postby Imeanunoharm » Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:14 am

Another species transposed and modified by the ancients?

I give you the tardigrade:

Image
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Re: Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionna

Postby Tobias » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:52 am

Imeanunoharm wrote:Another species transposed and modified by the ancients?

I give you the tardigrade:

Image
Dayum! Maybe the analogies to "primitive animals" I mentioned above weren't false after all! :wink:
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Re: Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionna

Postby donm61873 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:27 am

I totally missed this discussion...

Why change the Clotho? Because I didn't feel they fit into the Addaxur niche. I don't think the Clotho presented in GTAR1 match up with the Addaxur from AM4. I wanted the Addaxur to be built on top of the original CT AM4 presentation.

So when I was writing the Zhodani book, I went to Marc and asked him if GDW had ever put together any artwork on the Addaxur, and he found something very similar to the art shown in the book. We had a discussion on what was known or inferred about the Addaxur from the CT sources, and I developed it from there. Yes, there's a lot more that could be done, but I was worried about getting off focus (it's the Zhodani book, it should be about Zhodani).

And I really do wish I'd pitched for more Addaxur artwork. I like the new race.
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Re: Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionna

Postby dlpulver » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:36 am

GypsyComet wrote:The Clotho are an import, and were drafted into the Addaxur spot by that author. I like them, but they are not the Addaxur and never have been.
Well, I wrote them up, but it was a somewhat more collaborative process than me drafting them into the spot. I had told SJ Games around 1997 that I had the rights back to these races (as a result of discussions with ICE). In 1998 or so, Loren Wiseman and SJ approached me, saying they thought certain of these races were a good fit for Traveller, due to their cultures and biology, and asked if they could include them. We discussed the races, rejected some outright, and Loren then selected which ones he felt were appropriate to canon. The races were then modified extensively and carefully vetted. The process on the first book - with the Clotho/Addaxur -- included correspondence with Marc and discussion of his alien race design philosophy (including some draft material from T5) as well as a lengthy playtest. It was during this process that I was encouraged to make the Clotho into the Addaxur. If I recall, I believe the decision wasn't given too much consideration, just as specific request to do so originating from on high. My main focus in Alien Races 1 was getting the Zhodani and Vargr right and developing certain areas of their history, society or institutions that hadn't been covered.
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Re: Alien Module 4 Zhodani: ADDAXUR Questions and Questionna

Postby AdrianH » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:11 am

For what it's worth, here is what the original Traveller Alien Module 4 has to say about the Addaxur:
"In -5,120, Zhodani ships encountered the Addaxur, an intelligent race of six-legged carnivores from a high gravity world about 40 parsecs from Zhodane. The Addaxur had established their own interstellar empire of 37 systems with communications maintained by sublight ships. The Zhodani observed the fringes of the Addaxur empire for about 10 years before making open contact. Carefully planned overtures established friendly relations and reserved 10 of the Addaxur's 37 worlds for the Addaxur without restricting Zhodani expansion."

There are no pictures of the Addaxur in the original book. There's also a mention right near the beginning of the book that about 90% of Zhodani population are actual Zhodani, the rest being Addaxur, which could raise the possibility of Addaxur NPC's or even PC's...
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