2300AD Core Book Preview

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MongooseMatt
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2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby MongooseMatt » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:49 am

The 2300AD core book is due for release at the end of the month - you can grab a sneak peek preview here;

UK: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/rpgs/ ... ebook.html
US: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/us/rp ... ebook.html
Matthew Sprange

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http://www.mongoosepublishing.com
Wil Mireu
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Wil Mireu » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:54 am

Looks promising!

Though you seem to have a consistent typo in there - you're mis-spelling "Kafer" as "Kaefer".
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Airlock14 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:41 pm

Wil Mireu wrote:Looks promising!

Though you seem to have a consistent typo in there - you're mis-spelling "Kafer" as "Kaefer".
I believe that is deliberate, I have noticed Colin spelling it that way on forums before.
IIRC wasn't there once a discussion relating to whether the 'Kafer' spelling could be construed to be offensive.
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MongooseMatt
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby MongooseMatt » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:36 pm

It is spelled correctly. It was changed because a) some people _could_ take offence and b) it is still pronounced the same way, so the change is small.
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rust
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby rust » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:49 pm

Wil Mireu wrote: Though you seem to have a consistent typo in there - you're mis-spelling "Kafer" as "Kaefer".
Since "Käfer" (= bug) is a German word and "ae" is the usual
replacement for the "ä" in languages which do not use that let-
ter, "Kaefer" is the closest one can get to the setting's original
version of the name.
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Gee4orce » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:50 pm

I was really confused by the tables on page 4 of the PDF (plus - where are the page numbers ?) - it reads like 2 columns, but really it's 2 section (top, 2 columns, and then bottom, 2 columns). The layout could be better - a horizontal rule would really help, or better spacing.

[edit: Ah - found the page numbers, but white on light grey ????]
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Strithe » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:10 pm

Airlock14 wrote:
Wil Mireu wrote:Looks promising!

Though you seem to have a consistent typo in there - you're mis-spelling "Kafer" as "Kaefer".
I believe that is deliberate, I have noticed Colin spelling it that way on forums before.
IIRC wasn't there once a discussion relating to whether the 'Kafer' spelling could be construed to be offensive.
That discussion was completely silly: different spellings, and totally different pronunciation if I remember correctly. Do a google search for "Kafer": you get references to VW beetles, and in my case some company that makes gauges, and a link to an article about Oktoberfest & serving something called Kafer-roasted duck (ew!). No links to racist Afrikaans terminology, at least in the first 5 pages...
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Strithe » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:12 pm

rust wrote:
Wil Mireu wrote: Though you seem to have a consistent typo in there - you're mis-spelling "Kafer" as "Kaefer".
Since "Käfer" (= bug) is a German word and "ae" is the usual
replacement for the "ä" in languages which do not use that let-
ter, "Kaefer" is the closest one can get to the setting's original
version of the name.
Didn't now that, but it does make sense.
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Strithe » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:17 pm

msprange wrote:The 2300AD core book is due for release at the end of the month - you can grab a sneak peek preview here;

UK: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/rpgs/ ... ebook.html
US: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/us/rp ... ebook.html
Looks good overall... Is there any chance we could see some color world maps, perhaps as an online release?
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby bigkevmcd » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:38 pm

Looks great, can't wait to get my hands on it :-D

Lately my wife has been complaining that she doesn't get to shoot stuff in Sci-Fi games...can't wait to get my hands on 2300AD...

Will get out my old box-set and start basic orientation in preparation for the sleeker rule-set.

Do you have plans for a Star Cruiser-alike? Perhaps a ruleset for use with your miniatures stuff?

And other than "French Arm Adventures", what other plans do you have?

There wasn't a huge amount of material released for 2300AD, so I don't have any great expectations :-)
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Traveller-61 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:35 pm

bigkevmcd wrote:Looks great, can't wait to get my hands on it :-D
I'll second that! And I like the look of the new vehicle stats too (and that makes me want to have the Vehicle Book as well :lol: )

DW
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Wil Mireu » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:16 pm

msprange wrote:It is spelled correctly. It was changed because a) some people _could_ take offence and b) it is still pronounced the same way, so the change is small.
:shock:

I don't believe I'm hearing this. This is a game that has been around for decades, and as far as I know nobody has ever complained about it (and you even admit that nobody has actually taken offence).

I cannot imagine how anybody could be offended at Kafer. It is german for "beetle", and used for obvious reasons, since the Kafers look a bit like like beetles. It doesn't look or sound anything like any offensive word that would be appropriate in that context. The only things I could find were "kaffir", which is a racist term in some african countries, and "kafir" which is arabic for "unbeliever". I doubt that anyone who is actually offended by those terms would even be aware of the game existing in the first place, and even if they did I doubt that they'd actually be offended by it.

By this logic, you need a different word for "ship", because you can replace the "p" with a "t" and get a swearword that some people are offended by. Don't tell me you've done that too, have you?

This is nothing more than random political correctness taken too far, and I think it is moronic. If you had a genuine concern about it you could have put an umlaut over the a to make Käfer, which is even more obviously not an offensive word and still actually german. Or are accents too expensive for print?
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby rust » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:27 pm

Wil Mireu wrote: It is german for "beetle".
Not for a German, because he would pronounce "Kafer" with an "a"
as in "garden" or "market", not with an "ä" as in "Käfer / Kaefer". If
you want it German, as in the setting, the best way really is "Kaefer",
especially since few people would know how to pronounce an Umlaut
"ä".

True, there is a lot more ridiculous pseudo-German in the original ver-
sion of 2300AD, and unfortunately not all of it can be edited into some-
thing a German would recognize as at least remotely related to his lan-
guage, but I welcome the disappearance of every single one of the ori-
ginal "language bugs". :wink:
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Mikko Leho » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:31 pm

Wil Mireu wrote:I cannot imagine how anybody could be offended at Kafer.
I do not know about offending anyone, but I have encountered a few times the statement that 2300AD is cool because it is not afraid to be racist and colonialist with Kafers being the case in point.
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby rust » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:40 pm

Mikko Leho wrote: I do not know about offending anyone, but I have encountered a few times the statement that 2300AD is cool because it is not afraid to be racist and colonialist with Kafers being the case in point.
While I myself have never seen it as a problem, "Kafer" as
pronounced in some European languages (with the "garden-
a") indeed becomes "Kaffer", which is a slang term with the
same meaning as "Nigger" in some European countries.
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Mikko Leho » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:56 pm

rust wrote:While I myself have never seen it as a problem, "Kafer" as
pronounced in some European languages (with the "garden-
a") indeed becomes "Kaffer", which is a slang term with the
same meaning as "Nigger" in some European countries.
When I tell that Kafer should be pronounced as Käfer and it means beetle in German, people seem to get disappointed about the fact that 2300AD is not as edgy as they thought. Hell, I would love to have a fantasy game with nigromancers as class or career. There is nothing wrong with the word as itself but some people would choke on it and others would react very badly. That alone would be worth it :twisted:
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby barnest2 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:58 pm

I'm sorry, but I would say an open and public forum isn't the best place to discuss this. If you want to move it to PM's, please do...
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby rust » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:13 pm

barnest2 wrote:I'm sorry, but I would say an open and public forum isn't the best place to discuss this.
You mean an open and public forum where people spend
a lot of time to discuss how to kill people and how to blow
up things with high tech weaponry needs a little more po-
litical correctness ? :lol:
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby barnest2 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:14 pm

In this case... yes :P
Shooting people, killing things... its not the sort of thing people are going to get offended by on here.
The use of language considered highly racially inappropriate? people still get irritable on that one...
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Wil Mireu » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:16 pm

barnest2 wrote:I'm sorry, but I would say an open and public forum isn't the best place to discuss this. If you want to move it to PM's, please do...
Why should we do that?

This non-existent "issue" could have been easily "solved" by Mongoose calling them "Käfers" (with the umlaut), which is their proper name.

Instead, they decided to pre-emptively bow to imaginary pressure that didn't even exist to change the name to something different, and created a new problem that wasn't there before.

Well done, Mongoose.

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