2300AD Core Book Preview

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captainjack23
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby captainjack23 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:45 pm

ramira wrote:I have just discovered Mongoose's initiative and as someone who once played in 2300 PBEMs a decade ago, I should be very happy to see this develop successfully. I hope some thought will be made to supporting online play facilities.

And as an African, I am happy to see the hideousness of the Kaffer corrected to be Kaefer. It was always for me a distraction and unpleasant to see, as I speak also German and knew it to be also bad transliteration of Käfer. Easy for les blancs to hand wave away, but annoying. So a voice in support of that correction. I do hope that the massacre of the French language is partly corrected as well.

+1 to both. All three actually, (the french)

Bad spelling, bad association, bad press. All reasons to very properly make the change.
I'm also glad that the vocal changeophobes don't drive the decision (ie "It was always spelt that way so that it must not be changed") Interesting to see that 2300AD has its own "freeze it in amber" canonistas, really.

Speaking of which, Wil, your point is clear, but I'm guessing you aren't German or you might have a bit more respect for the Deutchophones applauding the change; nor American or South African. Or you'd understand the morass of scars and anger that having part of your population having owned another part of your population can leave and has left for generations. You're fortunate to live wherever it is that you live, since apparently that class of spoken word has no emotional baggage, and just intellectual/academic issues. A little mildly self-indulgent academic argumentativeness here can open up a world of hurt on these subjects, in commercial products especially. Which, I suspect, is Matt's main issue. ;)
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby ramira » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:59 pm

Yes.

In any case for the future for 2300AD I hope that it can be financially useful for Mongoose to host online services or perhaps subsciptions services, to render 2300AD more living again.
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Colin » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:00 am

While the massacre of French (or German) wasn't really addressed in the Core book, there will be some progress along those lines in the French Arm Sourcebook.

I would just like to speak a moment to the Kafer/Kaefer controversy, and I hope it can be put to rest.

This is not a political statement, it's a game. The name of the murderous aliens from beyond Arcturus is inconsequential to the game, itself, save for historical reasons. It would be different if the name meant something important and relevant. It doesn't, and is likely a bit of half-forgotten slang someone picked up when posted to Germany in the 60s or 70s, and thought was cool.

I wanted to change the name altogether. That a German name stuck when it was the French, North Americans (Tanstaafl) and Ukrainians fighting them always struck me as odd. "Cafards" works, and has no pejorative connotations that I am aware of. The same with "Rukh" (lobster).

When things don't make sense, or when they offend to no good purpose, I have no issue with revisiting them, and making changes as I think are required.
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Jame Rowe » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:30 pm

dalek4890l wrote:Personally I prefer Kaefer. At least it now looks as you are supposed to pronounce it. After reading about Kaefers I never liked the reference that it could also be a slang term for 'Sweetheart'.
I always used "Kafer" because it was the same thing as the German, simply without the umlauts - and notice that the reason I don't use my computer to put them in is because I don't know how!
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby MongooseMatt » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:09 pm

Jame Rowe wrote:and notice that the reason I don't use my computer to put them in is because I don't know how!
You may have hit upon the real reason for the change.




I'm kidding, I'm kidding!
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby middenface » Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:49 pm

Glad cooler heads have prevailed... step away from the Rubicon....

I saw the new spelling awhile ago.. and I thought 'I like it' don't know why... to be honest I was more intrested in design rules....

Any how... heres a little banner thingy I did for my blog.....
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captainjack23
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby captainjack23 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:31 pm

Colin wrote:While the massacre of French (or German) wasn't really addressed in the Core book, there will be some progress along those lines in the French Arm Sourcebook.

When things don't make sense, or when they offend to no good purpose, I have no issue with revisiting them, and making changes as I think are required.

Thanks Colin, always nice to hear from actual sources.

Me, over and above everything else, its nice to see that it isn't still a nonsensical made up slang word that begs for interpretation and discussion: I mean, its a designers semi-inside joke future word that really sounds (and is used) like an afrikanner word but is claimed to be a german word, despite it being not spelled that way in german and being applied by people who aint even close to german or afrikaaner descent. It's ironic that it now seems to be a soapbox for contrarians and social axe-grinding, and not the overly sensitive critics. Go figure. Its easy to raise a ruckus when there is no stake in the consequences, I guess.


Really, tossing it for that would have been fine, by iteself for just the linguistic/setting reasons; you are to be applauded for a solution which retains 95% of the original content and flavor. which from what I can tell is what you have accomplished with 2300 !

Seriously, well done. I sold my copy of 2300 the year I bought it (same year/month it came out; man was I unimpressed with the mechanics and merchandising), but this looks to be absolutely the good parts version, and am intending to buy it again. hey wjhats a quarter century between friends. :)
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Pentapod earplug » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:20 pm

5 pages of Kaefer pro/contra and one proper preview content comment? Feel free to correct me. Me? I suppose I would have appreciated a 2300ized attempt at Swedish. Would probably be very similar to the somewhat inexact expressions of one of the more popular muppets :)
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Colin » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:09 am

“Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn. Bork! Bork! Bork!”
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Colin » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:14 am

The Core Book is 25,000 words longer than intended, with Core worlds, Frontier worlds, aliens, Cortex hacking, vehicles, weapons, equipment, starships, deckplans, DNA modifications, cybernetics, robots, alien animals, domestic animals, partially uplifted animals, terrorists, dolphins, beanstalks, starship design... And other stuff.
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Kravell » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:35 am

Colin wrote:The Core Book is 25,000 words longer than intended, with Core worlds, Frontier worlds, aliens, Cortex hacking, vehicles, weapons, equipment, starships, deckplans, DNA modifications, cybernetics, robots, alien animals, domestic animals, partially uplifted animals, terrorists, dolphins, beanstalks, starship design... And other stuff.
I would like to give Mongoose my money now please.
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Pentapod earplug » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:03 am

Colin wrote:“Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn. Bork! Bork! Bork!”
Bork! Indeed. Bork in space, even :)
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Jame Rowe » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:57 pm

msprange wrote:
Jame Rowe wrote:and notice that the reason I don't use my computer to put them in is because I don't know how!
You may have hit upon the real reason for the change.




I'm kidding, I'm kidding!
After I learned that "Kafer" is supposed to have an umlaut, I just assumed that either the authors also didn't know or that they assumed that those who did know added it automatically.

But glad I'm "right!" :lol:
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Lysander » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:04 pm

Admittedly a bit of an aside, but I have always considered 2300 to have a similar feel to the universe of "Alien". With that, I am really looking forward to the upcoming release of "Prometheus" and am hopeful that the timing of its release will inspire some local gamers to want to play in the 2300 sandbox - as well as provide some interesting ideas for scenarios.

Maybe it could be incorporated as part of an extended "Bayern" campaign.

Just can't emphasize how excited I am to see 2300 back again.
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Kravell » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:40 pm

middenface wrote:Glad cooler heads have prevailed... step away from the Rubicon....

I saw the new spelling awhile ago.. and I thought 'I like it' don't know why... to be honest I was more intrested in design rules....

Any how... heres a little banner thingy I did for my blog.....
Looks good!
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Kravell » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:42 pm

Lysander wrote:Admittedly a bit of an aside, but I have always considered 2300 to have a similar feel to the universe of "Alien". With that, I am really looking forward to the upcoming release of "Prometheus" and am hopeful that the timing of its release will inspire some local gamers to want to play in the 2300 sandbox - as well as provide some interesting ideas for scenarios.

Maybe it could be incorporated as part of an extended "Bayern" campaign.

Just can't emphasize how excited I am to see 2300 back again.
Thanks for the idea, Lysander! May be just what I need to "sell" 2300 to my group.
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby dalek4890l » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:14 am

silburnl wrote:Finally (for this page), I don't like the Kaefer in the picture of the bottom - it's much too humaniform and there doesn't appear to be any sign of the 'carapace' that Kaefers are supposed to have. I'd be wondering what the German mercs who nicknamed them bugs had been smoking if they actually looked like that picture....

I echo the comments about the Kaefer picture. There was a much better similar picture in an old advertisment for a 2300 supplement in which the Kaefer was much more detailed and had his carapace. He was also shorter than the human.

Any news of when the sourcebook will be released?
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Pentapod earplug » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:52 am

I agree. It is only vaguely similar to this. If you squint.

Image
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Lysander » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:51 pm

Frankly, I never had an exact vision of the "Kaefers" because even the pictures and sketches in the various sourcebooks back in the old days always seemed a bit variable. The Kafer Sourcebook cover didn't really help me wrap my head around what they actually looked like (in fact, it confused me a bit) - although inside it is probably the best alien sourcebook I have ever purchased.

We introduced the "Kaefers" into our Classic Traveller universe in the mid 90's and truly freaked out the players for several months. Not your typical Classic Traveller race.

One of the reasons I like 2300.
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Re: 2300AD Core Book Preview

Postby Pentapod earplug » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:10 pm

Inside art varied greatly. I like some of it, whilst much of it is not really great. However, I don't recall ever having been confused by its rendering of Käfers.

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