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Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:51 pm
by msprange
No, not the core rulebook :)

Would it be a popular idea though if we updated some of the supplemental books? We already did this for 760 Patrons, and ended up with a much better book (and a real monster of a tome!), and the Vehicle Handbook will likewise do the same for vehicles.

Would you like to see other books updated?

Perhaps High Guard might be a candidate? Bigger, with more options and integrated with ship rules from latter supplements, with any inconsistencies cleared up?

Central Supply Catalogue, with a 'grand unification' enacted, along with a wealth more options for items other than weapons and armour (though, it has to be said, that is usually the most popular part of the book!)?

Mercenary? Beef it right up, include options for Marines and Soldiers, and really expand the running of mercenary companies (been having some ideas for this since working on A2089)?

What do you think? Would you like to see a revision (perhaps later this year) of any of these? Or are there other books you think we ought to be looking at?

Let us know, and we'll make it so!

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:00 pm
by Old timer
Ooh, would love to see a second edition of high guard and the central supply catalogue, to clear up some inconsistencies and make the weapons in CSC more usable (to many variants on armour piercing ammo, but no change to armour values) and more options for ships in high guard (spinal mount rail guns anyone?)

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:11 pm
by IanBruntlett
msprange wrote: (Much snipped)
Would you like to see other books updated?

(Much snipped)
What do you think? Would you like to see a revision (perhaps later this year) of any of these? Or are there other books you think we ought to be looking at?

Let us know, and we'll make it so!
I'm cautious about this. I bought the first editions partially as my way of helping Mg.

I suppose I'd be able to afford them at a rate of one second edition book per month. How long do you expect the 2nd Ed books to be available before you bring out 3rd Ed?

You've probably decided to do this already - do market research etc on your forums during development.

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:22 pm
by hdan
CSC 2nd Ed would be nice. There are other books I'd like to see have more detail. Scouts comes to mind, though Scoundrel is great the way it is. But I'd prefer those be add-ons, not subsequent editions.

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:41 pm
by OddjobXL
You've certainly hit the three titles I'd most like to see new editions of and addressed the content improvements I'd want to see. Heck, can we just set up direct deposits so I can just get this stuff when you publish it?

I kid.

A little.

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:43 pm
by AndrewW
Yes, especially High Guard.

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:41 pm
by swampslug
I think you've identified the best candidates for a second edition already.

I would also add Robot to that list, which could do with more example robots created using the design system as examples of the system in use and a rework to the design system itself to address the questions that keep appearing on the forum.

High Guard should fix the Naval Academy option by actually making it a worthwhile option, currently you lose more than you gain.
I would also like to see a set of integrated design rules that covers spaceship design from 10 tons to 500,000 tons.

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:51 pm
by phavoc
High Guard is definitely in need of a re-write. Off the top of my head I'd say:

1) ALL ship design rules need to be incorporated, instead of referencing the core rulebook
2) The rules need to be cleaned up a great deal. Core and HG rules often contradict one-another (take cabin space layout for example. HG says a std cabin is 4 squares, in core it's the classic 6).
3) Convert ship components to formula's instead of the old charts. Make it consistent.
4) How about updating the rules once, considering they are still using the same things from 30yrs ago. I'm not saying wholesale, but maybe heavy laser turrets, some point defense, ECM, etc? If you want, make them "optional" rules. Let players and refs decide if they want them. It's not a new idea, things like jump gates & anti-matter have been around for a while

Now if you just do some minor tweaks, you aren't getting my money. Fool me once for putting out a bad product, shame on you. Fool me twice for buying the corrected version that should have been released in the first place? Well, shame on me then.

MGT has had a very bad habit of releasing books that aren't proofed, are missing entire pages, the rules make no sense. Get the idea?

Do it RIGHT, and I think you'll see increased sales. Do it as you've done it in the past, and I think you'll see more people looking elsewhere for ways to spend their money.

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:59 pm
by Galadrion
CSC and Robot are currently the two titles with the greatest need of a second edition (in order to smooth out the current problems).

High Guard itself is not in as great a need, but if it's going to be revised, the unified system mentioned by Swampslug would be a good idea - although I'd also say that it doesn't need an artificial limit. Let hulls be designed with no upper boundary - although if you need a limiter, you can always say that stardrives, of whatever type the campaign uses, can only push a hull up to a certain size. If you need a suitable handwave, you can always rule that hulls much larger than a D-megaton begin to have enough of a gravity well of their own to start destabilizing the jump bubble.

Personally, I don't see much need for a revised version of Mercenary, but that may just be because I don't use it all that much, and then mainly as a loose framework.

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:24 pm
by theprofessor
Yes, to all those suggestions.

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:59 am
by Rockymountainnavy
How about updating Mercenary with the vehicle combat rules from Hammer's Slammers. Or for that matter just getting a decent set of vehicle combat rules?

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:41 am
by apoc527
If there was real added value to the second editions beyond incorporated errata, then I'd definitely buy them. Specifically, CSC, High Guard, and Robots would be books I would re-buy if they were completely "fixed" (beyond the errata--you'd need to include all the missing rules alluded to in CSC, etc).

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:47 am
by SSWarlock
Absolutely a clean-up of High Guard and CSC top my list. I wouldn't mind seeing Sword Worlds cleaned up a bit as well to remove the timeline confusion re: the Fifth Frontier War but if only 2 could be done, I'd like to see HG and CSC receive the highest priorities.

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:46 am
by Fovean
Yes to CSC (more non-weapons!), Robots (fixed design system) and High Guard (new weapons and defenses, improved design system). Scouts with additional equipment, exploration rules and unified star system and world generation would be nice too!

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:38 am
by Dunia
No please!

To be honest, I would rather see books like:

* Players guide to the Third Imperium/Chartered Space [see link at: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=49865

* Scholars & Scientist book, these two careers are the only two that has not got their own book yet.

* Fifth Frontier War, to us new players, we do not really know much about this, and the Library index is not that good to be honest.


I know I will not buy a second edition if I already have the first edition. I just see no point of having two almost identical books.

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:42 am
by GamerDude
Dunia wrote:No please!
I know I will not buy a second edition if I already have the first edition. I just see no point of having two almost identical books.
Trust us... Mongoose's "2nd Editions" are significant improvements of the original, and much larger too.

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:16 pm
by GamerDude
msprange wrote:No, not the core rulebook :)

Would it be a popular idea though if we updated some of the supplemental books?

Central Supply Catalogue, with a 'grand unification' enacted, along with a wealth more options for items other than weapons and armour (though, it has to be said, that is usually the most popular part of the book!)?

Let us know, and we'll make it so!
Ok CSC - major need of an update - yes bring every conciveable piece of gear into this one book with updated specs/stats *but* - the pictures need to actually be labeled. Many of the people I play with (especially at conventions) want to know what their stuff looks like - particularly fire arms.

Also more specific weapons - I've had players who were gun "enthusiasts" (read: plenty of knowledge they think they have, never fired a weapon) who as for very specific pistols and rifles.

Also, the other books (like High Guard) - ok, the separate supplements for each of the core book careers were nice but how about you take ALL the books (including core) and get all the rules to match, then rules are only found in one place (as opposed to in several places).

Personally, I would love all the careers and specialties in one book (with the tables muster out etc) and then all the crunch rules goodness in separate books - be a big help when people are rolling up characters.

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:57 pm
by GamingGlen
msprange wrote:
Perhaps High Guard might be a candidate? Bigger, with more options and integrated with ship rules from latter supplements, with any inconsistencies cleared up?
I'd like it. But that's all I need, ANOTHER (or improved) space ship designing system. (I'm such a gearhead)
Central Supply Catalogue, with a 'grand unification' enacted, along with a wealth more options for items other than weapons and armour (though, it has to be said, that is usually the most popular part of the book!)?
Yes, especially about non-weapon stuff. A gun is a gun is a gun, I want to see all those spiffy high tech stuff of the far future.

Instead of pictures of guns (okay, but we need 20 gazillion of them?), how about having scenes of some high tech locations. For instance, the starport bar (too cliche?); or another example: a hotel lobby with floating luggage that follows you, robot receptionist helping a non-human couple with children, holographic images at the tourist kiosk, and.. my imagination ran out. Which is probably the problem with the idea: do we really know what the future will hold or what "mundane" items we'll be using then? Fifty years ago who would have thought of the iPad? 200 hundred years ago the quill was the writing instrument. Now we're talking 1000s of years in the future.

One thing I liked in the Starship Operator's Manual was the pictures of various part of the ship with a smaller outline version that told you what was what.

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:59 pm
by locarno24
Agreed. The other thing which would improve ships is some pictures of the bridge from inside, etc, to go along with the deckplans.

Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:40 pm
by DigitalMage
I don't mind which books you do, but if they already have a LBB equivalent e.g. High Guard please ensure a LBB version of the 2nd ed is available too.

I have bought all the LBBs so far, though read none of them yet, if any of them are to get a 2nd ed I will likely postpone reading them, buy the 2nd ed and then give away the original.