Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby GamerDude » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:30 am

rust wrote:...but after that I will be gone from this system -
and certainly not return until things have improved a lot.
um.. to be fair... you've said that about a dozen times in other threads (with a big announcement creating an entire thread on this to kick it off).

I agree with your feelings - there are problems. Just tired of the "I'm done with MGT - again" stuff.
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby GamerDude » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:41 am

Somebody wrote:High Guard:
Unified construction system for everything from a speederbike to a dreadnaught would be nice. Not this "five systems and counting" we currently get.

And power consumption, effects of power output on fuel consumption and maybe rules for "tracking based on reactor power". Even if only as an add-on rules
T20 had one such system - but they left out that "1 power point" for a ship was equal to about "100 power points' for a vehicle (their terms). They borrowed my book when it came out tried building stuff (they were a stats/math major) and their starships moved about 3kph after all was said.

Hero System has a beautiful system for building just about anything (an umbrella costs 70 char points to make). It can make anything from a 'stick' to an 'inter-galactic trans warp luxury liner' with the exact same system - just takes a ton of math etc. There is even software that you can buy which lets you make characters, build new items, etc.

The GURPS vehicle system in 3rd ed was pretty nice especially for starships, I haven't tried the one in 4th ed (although I have tried using the 'Powers' book and gave up).
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby Easterner » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:30 am

CSC badly needs second edition. Rules and prices brought to heel. Hit location option etc.

2nd edition of others less welcome. Better to do something different and add rules there. So instead of HIGH GUARD do a Solomani/Zhodani Naval books and add missing, new & revised HG rules as needed there.
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby rust » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:53 am

GamerDude wrote: Just tired of the "I'm done with MGT - again" stuff.
As mentioned, blame it on Spica, when I had decided to quit
Mongoose Traveller they published Outer Veil, and I wanted
to play that setting and was too lazy to rewrite it for another
system. After that ... - the science fiction setting I am wor-
king on now is non-Traveller, and there is no more Traveller
stuff on my list, so you will very soon be rid of me. :lol:
GamerDude wrote: The GURPS vehicle system in 3rd ed was pretty nice especially for starships, I haven't tried the one in 4th ed ...
A vehicle system for the 4th edition has not yet been publi-
shed.
Last edited by rust on Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby Somebody » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:31 am

Gamer Dude: MegaTraveller and TNE both had Energy consumption systems. The MegaTraveller one might actually be adaptabel
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby Vile » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:28 pm

If there is to be a second edition of anything, I would like it to be a comprehensive build system that makes robots, vehicles and starships compatible. Megatraveller tried and got it mostly right (after you work in all the errata), so I'd like to see MGT go down that route.

I don't think the TMB really needs a re-write - a comprehensive errata/update PDF would be fine and it wouldn't take many pages.
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby IanBruntlett » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:36 pm

Vile wrote: I don't think the TMB really needs a re-write - a comprehensive errata/update PDF would be fine and it wouldn't take many pages.
Ditto. Especially as I have multiple copies of TMB because most of my players are casual players.
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby GamerDude » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:39 am

rust wrote:...and there is no more Traveller
stuff on my list, so you will very soon be rid of me. :lol:
I have no desire to be 'rid of' you or anyone - I just desire to stop hearing how you are leaving. Basically, when you finally do post a "good bye cruel world" and then quietly exit. I'll join the others who are going to miss you.
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby apoc527 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:06 pm

rust wrote: A vehicle system for the 4th edition has not yet been publi-
shed.
Not quite true. There is the whole GURPS Spaceships line with rules for designing...uhh...spaceships. But in Pyramid, (Alternate GURPS...I think it's #3/36 or so) there are rules for adapting the Spaceships rules for most types of vehicles.

It's nothing like Vehicles for GURPS 3rd Edition (thank god...that book made me hate GURPS), but quite serviceable.
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby 8thseadog » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:38 am

Personally I think several of the books mentioned could be repaired with errata (robots for example isn't a problem book because of what it lacks content wise, it causes problems because of unclear rules and and issues with game mechanics). The CSC might be a good candidate for a second edition because it lacks a substantial piece of content (it has a lot of weaponry but is comparitively light on most other equipment), in addition to rules mechanics problems (most notably price and function discrepancies between books).
Here is what I think: Like most of the posters I think CSC and High Guard are the most deserving candidates for a second edition. Robots needs heavy errata in the initial chapter (the robot design method is ok but there are so many ambiguities and mechanics problems in the individual sections, and very high prices for very rudimentary robots). Cybernetics could use an errata review of the implant prices, but I don't find it as bad as some say. As far as mercenary goes I think it is actually ok as is, I would rather have content on a new subject than another edition of book 1, it doesn't have major game mechanics problems, and while you could argue there is content you could add to it, I don't think it would be worth producing a new edition at the expense of completely new releases.

On a related note, there really has to be some better review before these books go to the consumer. One reason I say this is because we have books covering the same content 5 different ways (for example Agent, Scoundrel, Robots, and Cybernetics all have their own computer hacking rules that differ from the core and each other somewhat, and a few of these books have multiple variants or unique skill in the case of scoundrel). Also a lot of creation systems wind up having pretty glaring flaws (ie no size or speed for animal creation in animal encounters, robot creation in about a dozen places) where it doesn't seem like they were tested out very completely.
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby donm61873 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:43 am

8thseadog wrote:Personally I think several of the books mentioned could be repaired with errata (robots for example isn't a problem book because of what it lacks content wise, it causes problems because of unclear rules and and issues with game mechanics). The CSC might be a good candidate for a second edition because it lacks a substantial piece of content (it has a lot of weaponry but is comparitively light on most other equipment), in addition to rules mechanics problems (most notably price and function discrepancies between books).
Here is what I think: Like most of the posters I think CSC and High Guard are the most deserving candidates for a second edition. Robots needs heavy errata in the initial chapter (the robot design method is ok but there are so many ambiguities and mechanics problems in the individual sections, and very high prices for very rudimentary robots). Cybernetics could use an errata review of the implant prices, but I don't find it as bad as some say. As far as mercenary goes I think it is actually ok as is, I would rather have content on a new subject than another edition of book 1, it doesn't have major game mechanics problems, and while you could argue there is content you could add to it, I don't think it would be worth producing a new edition at the expense of completely new releases.

On a related note, there really has to be some better review before these books go to the consumer. One reason I say this is because we have books covering the same content 5 different ways (for example Agent, Scoundrel, Robots, and Cybernetics all have their own computer hacking rules that differ from the core and each other somewhat, and a few of these books have multiple variants or unique skill in the case of scoundrel). Also a lot of creation systems wind up having pretty glaring flaws (ie no size or speed for animal creation in animal encounters, robot creation in about a dozen places) where it doesn't seem like they were tested out very completely.
One great way to help identify what books really need a second edition as opposed to those books which just need a little errata is to contribute to the Great Cleanup with the items you mentioned in your post above :D
Last edited by donm61873 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby JRoss » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:02 am

I'd like to see the Trust mechanic from Agent applied exactly to Scoundrel and Merchant Prince in the case of corporate merchants.
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby Rusty_Unycorn » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:04 pm

I'd like to see you guys do your "Rule Bible", that one repository of all rules that you use internally to make sure that everything stays consistent. You don't need to publish it, but having that on hand for your writers is making everything flow much more smoothly.
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby Egil Skallagrimsson » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:52 pm

To be honest, IMHO, the one book needing a complete replacement is CSC, there are just too many thingss wrong with it. Even Robot is salvagable, with proper errata and a number of example robots to show us a how a variety of different types are put together.

Since we had the errata, I don't find HG too much of a problem, though I seem to be in a minority in that.

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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby msprange » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:38 pm

Vile wrote: I don't think the TMB really needs a re-write - a comprehensive errata/update PDF would be fine and it wouldn't take many pages.
Just to be clear, we are not even thinking about doing a second edition of the rulebook. When it first came out, we said it would remain for ten years and so it will. The most we _may_ do is a tarted up version down the road.

At the ten year point, we may well look at a second edition. After ten years, there will be a huge amount of rules spread across many, many books and a consolidation will likely be a desireable thing - but that is still at least five years away!
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby Vile » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:04 am

I'm glad to see we're of a mind - although I didn't really think the TMB was a candidate from your end, I was more responding to other posters.
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby GamerDude » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:33 am

8thseadog wrote:On a related note, there really has to be some better review before these books go to the consumer. One reason I say this is because we have books covering the same content 5 different ways (for example Agent, Scoundrel, Robots, and Cybernetics all have their own computer hacking rules that differ from the core and each other somewhat, and a few of these books have multiple variants or unique skill in the case of scoundrel). Also a lot of creation systems wind up having pretty glaring flaws (ie no size or speed for animal creation in animal encounters, robot creation in about a dozen places) where it doesn't seem like they were tested out very completely.
Again my comment on WotC and supplements for D&D 3.x

Let me add this - Three threads all closely related, and two pretty much are slightly different versions of the same thing:
Second Edition - Comments Wanted!(this one)
Book X and Supplement X - Comments Wanted!
and
The Great Traveller Clean-Up!

(guess who started all of them?) :shock:
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby Thile » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:52 pm

Please do not thin that I dislike Traveller or the various authors, but one thing that the writers and Mongoose does really bad, and might be a cause for a second edition is the constant page references to page xx (yes it says so in many books) Please if you make references, do put out a number and those who do proof read it, please be alert on this. It is so annoying and looks really amateur like.

Otherwise, thank you for a great game and a good initiative
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby Jame Rowe » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:55 pm

msprange wrote: Would you like to see other books updated?

Perhaps High Guard might be a candidate? Bigger, with more options and integrated with ship rules from latter supplements, with any inconsistencies cleared up?

Mercenary? Beef it right up, include options for Marines and Soldiers, and really expand the running of mercenary companies (been having some ideas for this since working on A2089)?

What do you think? Would you like to see a revision (perhaps later this year) of any of these? Or are there other books you think we ought to be looking at?

Let us know, and we'll make it so!
Yes. Both of these. But there is one important thing:

LOWER the tech level of many of the components! Very Rapid Fire Gauss Guns should be Tech Level 10 for the weight and cost listed in Mercenary!
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Re: Second Edition - Comments Wanted!

Postby Thile » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:01 pm

Jame Rowe wrote:
msprange wrote: Would you like to see other books updated?

Perhaps High Guard might be a candidate? Bigger, with more options and integrated with ship rules from latter supplements, with any inconsistencies cleared up?

Mercenary? Beef it right up, include options for Marines and Soldiers, and really expand the running of mercenary companies (been having some ideas for this since working on A2089)?

What do you think? Would you like to see a revision (perhaps later this year) of any of these? Or are there other books you think we ought to be looking at?

Let us know, and we'll make it so!
Yes. Both of these. But there is one important thing:

LOWER the tech level of many of the components! Very Rapid Fire Gauss Guns should be Tech Level 10 for the weight and cost listed in Mercenary!
Add more features you can upgrade a standard spaceship with. Players, I have notice, love to upgrade their ships with laboratories, labs, sick bays, etc.

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