Speed of thought

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Jak Nazryth
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Speed of thought

Postby Jak Nazryth » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:09 pm

One of the players pointed out when they were communicating with a space port, the delay time was about 45 seconds between question/answer (yes, he actually did the math) I agreed that it did take that long, but as a GM I would not "roll play" the time lag while "being the npc on the other end"

That got me thinking.
Is psionics instantaneous no matter the distance when sending/receiving thoughts etc..?
Or does it follow the same time lag as regular communications?
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby Hans Rancke » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:23 pm

Jak Nazryth wrote:Is psionics instantaneous no matter the distance when sending/receiving thoughts etc..?

Or does it follow the same time lag as regular communications?
I have a vague recollection of a canonical discussion of the subject that says that psionic effects are limited to the speed of light, but I can't remember where and I may be wrong.

However, effectively it is limited to considerably less than interstellar distances by the distance costs, so it would rarely make much of a difference.


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Re: Speed of thought

Postby hdan » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:53 pm

Oddly, I have the opposite recollection. Though the "Empress Wave" (a psionic effect of some sort) was supposed to be moving at light speed, there were Imperial research projects to try to use psionics to make FTL communications.

Of course maybe the OTU truth was that psi travels at c, and the researchers were doomed to failure or working a boondoggle/scam.
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby Matrix Cypher » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:58 pm

If I remember correctly. Natural Telepathy is FTL, Artifical/mechanical Telepathy as in the research being developed and the soarse of the Empress wave are at the speed of light.

Could be wrong though, but this is how I do it in my traveller universe.
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby Jak Nazryth » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:26 pm

I am thinking ahead.
Since psionics are slightly more prevalent IMTU (think B5... psioncis are still highly illegal in the Emperium, except within the highly controlled psi-corp) there is a good chance a situation might happen. For instance...

The way the players are moving IMTU, I can see the following possibility.
A psi-mole is discovered on the players ship. A warning is sent via normal communication just before the players go into jump. The message takes up to a minute from the on-world source to the ship.
At the same time, the psi-mole gets a warning from his psi-counterpart “They know you’re a mole, take precautions”.
Which message gets there first?
Does the psi-mole have 10 combat rounds to try and sabotage the ships communications so that the “normal” communication never arrives?
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby GypsyComet » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:28 pm

I think the Empress Wave has been sped up a bit, actually. Check the new Zhodani book.
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby alex_greene » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:17 pm

GypsyComet wrote:I think the Empress Wave has been sped up a bit, actually. Check the new Zhodani book.
Sped up to an impossible 3.26 light years per year - 3.26 times the speed of light.

In normal space.
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby hdan » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:48 am

alex_greene wrote:Sped up to an impossible 3.26 light years per year - 3.26 times the speed of light.
So someone got lightyears and parsecs/hexes mixed up again? :P
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby GypsyComet » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:15 am

That does put it at the very coreward edge of the Consulate in 1105 instead of a subsector into Gvurrdon and the Consular core sectors.
IIRC, Dave Nilsen has stated (in a CotI discussion) that a "connection" between jumpspace and psionics was one of the long-term reveals intended for TNE.
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby alex_greene » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:45 am

hdan wrote:
alex_greene wrote:Sped up to an impossible 3.26 light years per year - 3.26 times the speed of light.
So someone got lightyears and parsecs/hexes mixed up again? :P
They must live in a very small galaxy ...
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby BP » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:01 pm

Well, I don't generally use Psionics IMTU, but what are the rules on Teleportation?

Quick look - pg 156 mentions 'instantaneous'. Didn't find mention of distance limit? Mentions obeying laws of physics, though :lol: :roll:
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:47 pm

Well, for anything short of Teleporation to a moon or another planet, it is going to be "instantaneous" if it moves at light speed.

The truth is that you can do it however you like. The rules are vague, so make a decision and move on. I can see advantages and disadvantages either way. Pick the one that makes sense to you or that works best in your setting/game.
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby Jeraa » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:19 pm

BP wrote:Well, I don't generally use Psionics IMTU, but what are the rules on Teleportation?

Quick look - pg 156 mentions 'instantaneous'. Didn't find mention of distance limit? Mentions obeying laws of physics, though :lol: :roll:
Well, the range table for psionics on page 153 stops at Planetary (5,000 to 50,000 km). So I'd say that is the range limit.
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby alex_greene » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:54 pm

Only because nobody ever asked the designer "What if I want to be Gully Foyle from "The Stars My Destination?""
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby Jeraa » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:24 am

alex_greene wrote:Only because nobody ever asked the designer "What if I want to be Gully Foyle from "The Stars My Destination?""
I'm not familiar with that, but if Wikipedia is right, teleportation was limited to planetary ranges there as well.
Bester's unique addition to this mix is the concept that human beings could learn to teleport, or "jaunte" from point to point, provided they know the exact locations of their departure and arrival and have physically seen the destination. There is one overall absolute limit: no one can jaunte through outer space. On the surface of a planet, the jaunte rules supreme; otherwise, mankind is still restricted to machinery
Edit: Nevermind. It seems Gully Foyle develops the ability to jaunte through space as well, including between star systems (and apparently through time as well...)
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby alex_greene » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:23 am

Jeraa wrote:
alex_greene wrote:Only because nobody ever asked the designer "What if I want to be Gully Foyle from "The Stars My Destination?""
Edit: Nevermind. It seems Gully Foyle develops the ability to jaunte through space as well, including between star systems (and apparently through time as well...)
Admittedly, his unconscious mind was doing the driving at the time, but since Gully was mostly being driven by his unconscious anyway it wasn't any great effort for his id.
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby Tobias » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:10 pm

alex_greene wrote:
GypsyComet wrote:I think the Empress Wave has been sped up a bit, actually. Check the new Zhodani book.
Sped up to an impossible 3.26 light years per year - 3.26 times the speed of light.

In normal space.
The EW doesn't make sense on so many levels, adding one more bit of nonsense doesn't really change it for the worse. :mrgreen:

I suppose it was sped up to explain how the Zhodani apparently haven't known about it for centuries (millenia is more like it actually), which they would have with the old light-speed EW. Then again, to explain that, it wasn't sped up enough. So I really don't know what the reasoning was. Maybe to explain how it has not reached the Consulate yet, and may still do so in a relevant time frame? In any case, the MgT version of the wave is obviously very different from the previous canon version.
It is also somewhat unclear if the "new" EW is a wave at all, not that a "wave" ever made much sense either.
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby alex_greene » Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:05 pm

Or, the fact that it's capable of J-1 might give the Zhos pause to wonder if it isn't something else, like I dunno, a wave of flying parasites that invade planets on board Jump ships and stick to people's backs like someone puked on them, making everybody mad or something?
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby rust » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:23 pm

alex_greene wrote: ... a wave of flying parasites that invade planets on board Jump ships and stick to people's backs like someone puked on them, making everybody mad or something?
Well, at least that seems a lot more plausible than all
those other explanations of the Empress Wave ... :lol:
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Re: Speed of thought

Postby alex_greene » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:47 pm

rust wrote:
alex_greene wrote: ... a wave of flying parasites that invade planets on board Jump ships and stick to people's backs like someone puked on them, making everybody mad or something?
Well, at least that seems a lot more plausible than all
those other explanations of the Empress Wave ... :lol:
:shock: :D It does, doesn't it? *gets out the UV lamps*
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