Prime Directive Traveller

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
RobinS
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Postby RobinS » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:22 am

Given ADBs concerns around PDF products, will PD Traveller (and SFU ACTA) be released as PDFs or just hard copy?
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Postby rust » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:36 am

RobinS wrote:Given ADBs concerns around PDF products, will PD Traveller (and SFU ACTA) be released as PDFs or just hard copy?
At least Prime Directive D20 Modern and GURPS Prime Directive are avail-
able as PDFs, and almost all Mongoose Traveller material is also available
in PDF form, so I would be very surprised if PD Traveller would not use
that distribution channel.
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Postby Jean » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:26 am

Just a couple of points.

Right now, it looks like the book will not be a stand-alone. According to Matthew, you guys are used to having the core rulebook and supplements. He thinks we'll need all the pages to bring you more SFU goodness. :D

We cannot use any site that is based off of the TV series as a basis to calculate size. We do have existing information for our ships and will run with it.

We have been seriously dealing with PDFs for nearly a year now. We have an extensive collection via e23 and we've placed our PD20M books on DTRPG. If we had a serious problem with PDFs, then I doubt we'd have the master rulebooks for three of our core games up (not counting the RPGs). :) We're excited to see our fans with legal e-versions of our materials and I know that Matthew and SVC (our Fearless Leaders) have discussed e-versions for this game. I think the only question will be which site gets them and when.

Again, thanks for your input -- I know all of us are reading and absorbing your thoughts. After Origins, I should have a chance to delve into the Traveller universe and immerse myself in its language and thought patterns. I want this to have the look/feel of any Traveller book, but to be unmistakeably the Star Fleet Universe.

Does that help answer some questions?

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Postby zero » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:37 am

Fair enough if the book isnt standalone and will have supplements, thats cool, but can it be played using just the Core, or will it have references stating; "this will be discussed in a future supplement"?? :?
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Postby Scarecrow » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:24 pm

Ta-Dah!

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Trek ships taken from Ex Astris. All other artwork belongs to Andrew Boulton

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Postby Jean » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:27 pm

The book isn't even started -- I'm not sure how much we can cram in. I expect that we will have to say things like, "For more, see the Klingon sourcebook." We may indeed have to eat the Traveller/SFU elephant one bite at a time.

Still I would think that getting some things out quickly would be far better than us producing the "perfect" 1000-page rulebook/deckplans/worldbooks Monster Compendium five years down the road. :D
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Postby Myrm » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:25 pm

I don't think people will be too worried about you referencing sourcebooks in your own line - its if the main SFU book starts to reference items outside of the Core Mongoose Traveller Rulebook (or even SFB/SFU items) that will potentially irritate people.
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Postby DFW » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:45 pm

Scarecrow wrote:Ta-Dah!

Image

Trek ships taken from Ex Astris. All other artwork belongs to Andrew Boulton

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So, size wise, the Tigress is MUCH larger than a Galaxy class star ship.
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Postby phdillman » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:20 pm

DFW wrote:
Scarecrow wrote:Ta-Dah!

Image

Trek ships taken from Ex Astris. All other artwork belongs to Andrew Boulton

Crow
So, size wise, the Tigress is MUCH larger than a Galaxy class star ship.
Actually the TNG Galaxy class is nearly twice the size of the connie.
http://conservationreport.files.wordpre ... -chart.gif
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Postby AKAmra » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:31 pm

Scarecrow wrote:Ta-Dah!

Image

Trek ships taken from Ex Astris. All other artwork belongs to Andrew Boulton

Crow
That's very cool and seems to support what I meant by "apples to apples". SFU war ships aren't huge compared to Traveller's war ships. I'd also think that the SFU also has a full complement of smaller vessels that would also be comparable to Traveller Scouts, Merchants, Etc.

Now Star Wars has got some Huge ships...
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Postby AKAmra » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:41 pm

Jean wrote:The book isn't even started -- I'm not sure how much we can cram in. I expect that we will have to say things like, "For more, see the Klingon sourcebook." We may indeed have to eat the Traveller/SFU elephant one bite at a time.

Still I would think that getting some things out quickly would be far better than us producing the "perfect" 1000-page rulebook/deckplans/worldbooks Monster Compendium five years down the road. :D
I don't understand why this "one book" issue is even being brought up. It seems obvious that the SFU can't be fully detailed in one book, just as the OTU couldn't be. Even C-Stars is a two book deal (for Traveller) and it's just one solar system with a lot of information that's going to be left out and expanded upon using The Void rules.

The Traveller: Prime Directive core book needs to function as such; but I hope that the setting is popular enough to allow for follow-up alien books, sector books, ship books, etc.
Last edited by AKAmra on Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby DFW » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:47 pm

phdillman wrote:Actually the TNG Galaxy class is nearly twice the size of the connie.
http://conservationreport.files.wordpre ... -chart.gif
Still makes it much smaller in volume than the Tigress. Do the volume calcs.
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Postby Scarecrow » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:02 pm

Yeah, the Galaxy Class is somewhere in the region of 350,000 dTons. Something like that.

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Postby SteveCole » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:20 pm

I have seen a lot of different tonnage calculators. The one for Gurps 3 (the first one I came to on my bookshelf) puts the D7 at 110,000 deadweight tons. I think more in terms of crew size, which is about 450 for an SFU heavy cruiser.

Deck plans are going to be amusing to think about. The smallest fed warship (Burke-class frigate) has a crew of over 225 and takes a total of ten pages for deck plans (in reference size, not big enough to game on) including floor plans, explanation of what each thing is, and the two-page crew manifest. Figure a heavy cruiser would take 16-20 pages. That's not going to allow us to have more than one or two ships per book. Current books have one ship each.

In playable scale (i.e., walking 28mm minis around the map) the Klingon G1 gunboat is about 20 inches wide and 32 inches long and by the way that is just the upper deck, the lower deck is the same size, so figure you need a 4x4 table to hold it, a bit larger than most dining room tables, but fits on a pool table. And that's the little itty bitty gunboat with a crew of 27. Even so, gunboats are cool RPG ships as after the General War about 20000 of them were sold off as war surplus. If you take most of the weapons out, and don't try to run the engines at 200% all the time like they do in combat, you could easily turn a ship that handles a crew of 27 for combat missions lasting 4 days into a ship able to carry eight people at Holiday Inn level accomodations for several months. And gunboats CAN land on planets.

PDFs: certainly. We have tons of them on e23. Technically, the decision to offer them by PDF requires both Mongoose and ADB to agree but since we both do that as a normal part of things then I don't think either of us would veto the deal.

Certainly it won't be one book. The first book will have plenty to keep you busy until the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 23rd books are published.
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Postby SteveCole » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:27 pm

BY THE WAY, I will be leaving Monday the 20th for Origins and won't be back here until the 28th or 29th. It's possible I won't be here again before the 20th, meaning, before the 29th. Kinda busy getting ready for Origins.
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Postby DFW » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:37 pm

Scarecrow wrote:Yeah, the Galaxy Class is somewhere in the region of 350,000 dTons. Something like that.

Crow
Sounds about right.
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Postby Galadrion » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:08 pm

Jean wrote:Still I would think that getting some things out quickly would be far better than us producing the "perfect" 1000-page rulebook/deckplans/worldbooks Monster Compendium five years down the road. :D
*Suspicious squint* You... wouldn't happen to be watching the development of T5, would you now? :twisted:
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Postby captainquirk » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:05 pm

So far most people have said that we DON'T want the deck plans in the first release. But we DO want to be able to use the iconic cruiser-sized ships.
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Postby aelius » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:51 pm

Have to say I am looking forward to this. However I come down on the side of wanting to be able to design ships as well as simply run them with provided classes.
I like the SFU and have since I bought the Pocket Games version of Star Fleet Battles as a teenager. I am curious to see what a Traveller version will look like and how it will play.
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Postby zero » Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:18 pm

It seems obvious that the SFU can't be fully detailed in one book, just as the OTU couldn't be. Even C-Stars is a two book deal (for Traveller) and it's just one solar system with a lot of information that's going to be left out and expanded upon using The Void rules.
Except that the OTU Core book only mentions the "we will have this in a future supplement" about small craft construction rules. Unless you wanted custom small craft straight away, you play with the Trav Core only, as I have done for ages until I actually picked up High Guard.

I agree you need High Guard along with Cstars to play that supplement.

What I meant previously was, although I realise you'd probably need a Trav Core to play PD: Trav, I'd be annoyed if rules are introduced which feature heavily in the game, then they wont be explained until a future supplement arrives - the small craft construction in Traveller wasnt a huge part of the game, but things like omitting entire bits (if not using the Traveller equivalents), such as entire spaceship rules, equipment lists, lists of planets, naming a skill but not saying what it does until a future book, stupid things like that, thats an annoyance.

Now I am looking forward to seeing what PD: Traveller is like, so if its a simple case of, with the Klingon example, that there are base profiles and to learn more I have to get that sourcebook, fine thats cool, because I can still use them in my games until the book comes out. Also theres Star Trek wikis anyway :) Its more the case of saying there are Klingons as a main combatant and not having anything about them after that in the Core until the supplement, making me wait until that supplement book is out to use them, thats what I would find annoying.

I know rpg books is a business, but that whole "luring someone with a note on a string and pulling it whenever they get near" makes me not want to buy more. If the bare bones are there and I need more info, then I am more inclined to buy the supplement when its released.
Thanks to Barnest2 for designing my Stubby 1.0 and for GJD in doing a model also!
Thanks to AndrewW and far-trader for deckplanning my new Darrian ship and Barnest2 for renders!

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