Robot Character Creation Challenge

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Gamael
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Robot Character Creation Challenge

Postby Gamael » Fri May 20, 2011 6:35 pm

Hello there fellow Sci Fi-loving nerds

I´ve just bought the Traveller Robot Expansion and fails to see how I could create a human mimicing android using the official rules in the book only, and therefore I´m putting out this challenge for all of you robot enthusiasts out there.

The rules are as follows:

Try to create a robot who looks, feels, sounds and behaves like a normal human, with all the senses a human has, using the rules provided in this book and core rulebook only.
You don´t have to put in any kind of extra high-performance gadgets or anything, just whatever neccesary to create the illusion of an everyday human being.
Price is not an issue here. No restrictions here.

Good luck!

ATTENTION:
Stay on topic.
Please keep it civil in this thread. :)
If you think that someone has interpretated the rules wrongly, be my guest and say it, but in a civilized fashion and with good intentions aimed to help the others to understand how to use the rules as efficient as possible.
If you don´t like this idea, you don´t have to say it and you´re free to leave.

Positive attitude is king!
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DFW
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Postby DFW » Fri May 20, 2011 7:03 pm

Servitor (TL 13): Cr120,000
pg. 95 MRB

I win! :mrgreen:
Gamael
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Postby Gamael » Fri May 20, 2011 7:53 pm

Hehe, welcome and thank you for the first addition! :D
Good try but jokes aside, I just wish it was that easy constructing a human-like robot according to Book 9: Robot.
You´re going to have to be a little more specific about how many slots used, which typ of frame/ manipulators/ transportation/ communication/ output/ computer/ gadgets/ software programs etc.

I sure hope that it is, in fact, possible to do... :roll:
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DFW
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Postby DFW » Fri May 20, 2011 10:42 pm

Gamael wrote:Hehe, welcome and thank you for the first addition! :D
Good try but jokes aside, I just wish it was that easy constructing a human-like robot according to Book 9: Robot.
You´re going to have to be a little more specific about how many slots used, which typ of frame/ manipulators/ transportation/ communication/ output/ computer/ gadgets/ software programs etc.

I sure hope that it is, in fact, possible to do... :roll:
I thought using the Core Rule Book was in. I don't have Robots. So, next time.
Gamael
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Postby Gamael » Mon May 23, 2011 3:08 pm

Ok, since actual robot building seems pretty hard for everyone, I´m going to field test the robotics area with a TL 14 android robot.

Basic frame:
Tall frame, size 3 (human sized)
Unit, size 1 (works as a head. 2 sizes smaller then the body)

Options:
Light (to more exactly match a human weight),
Sealed (humans aren´t hurt by rain, and nor should the android be)

This brings up a total of 12 avaliable slots.

Manipulators:
2x Arms, size 3 (a very strange weight of only 1 kg here, so I suppose it must be per arm at least)

-4 slots

Transportation:
2x Erect legs (described as "chicken legs", but since these are the only ones somewhat similar to human legs that is possible to buy, I´ll go for a pair of these)

-4 slots

Communication:
Audio sensor (so it can hear as a regular human being)
Optics, advanced (mimics human vision - only better. I choose advanced since it occupies only 0.5 slot)
Smell detector (so it can smell)
Tactile sensor (enables the android to registrate pressure. this one gives me headache! Apparently it is not enough to buy one for the entire surface. Since it does not mention how many tactile sensors that is required for the entire body, I assume it must be one per bodypart. I ended up bying 7 sensors - One for the head unit, one for the basic frame, which concider the torso, one for each arm and each leg. + one more for the sexual organs. It ate up 7 slots!!!)
Taste sensor (so it can taste stuff)

-10.5 slots

Output
Pheromone emitter (to allow it to affect other humans as a human)
Vocoder, advanced (to allow for a human-like voice)

-2 slots

Computer
2x CPU, synaptic (since personality programs requires synaptic computers, and to allow for auto-correction, the closest to sleep an android can get)
8x Memory sticks, TL 13 (a total of 2TB)

-1 slot

Gadgets:
Bio-cover (This is the only option to allow for human-mimicing appearence for robots as far as I can understand)
Sex organs (don´t ask. use your imagination)

Software:
PP, level 4 (like a regular human)
Emotion generator (enables it to think more like a human)
Encyclopaedia (I didn´t buy any encyclopedia levels since there isn´t any prize limitations in the challenge)
Experience processor (enables it to learn from its mistakes and new experiences, like a human)

Skills (Its CPU and memory sticks allow for level 2 skill packs, but I didn´t buy any skills since there isn´t any prize limitations in the challenge)

Applications:
Auto-correction (the earlier mentioned "sleep"-program)
Language packs (I didn´t buy any language packs since there isn´t any prize limitations in the challenge)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Amount of Slots:
An android like this requires 20.5 slots. Since the regular frame and unit only has 12 slot avaliable, I need to buy 9 more slots. The most weight efficient way to add slots is by adding five extra size 1 units to the frame, and since the units also is referred to as plates, add-ons and bones, I imagine that they can be infused into the frame without having any special impact on the appearence (i.e. not five more heads on the body!!!)

Total Weight:
Base weight for the frame and its head unit is 121 kg, but since we had to add five more units to allow for more slots, the total weight is instead 126 kg. the Light-option turns it into 63 kg instead. Other hardware (arms 2kg, legs, 15 kg, audio sensor 0.5kg, optics, advanced 0.5kg, smell detector 0.5kg, 7x tactile sensors 3.5kg, taste sensor 0.5kg, vocoder, advanced 0.5kg, 2x CPU, synaptic 2kg, bio-cover 1kg) adds up to an extra 29.5 kg, which gives the sum of a total 92.5 kg.

If this seems weird in some ways, or if you suspect that I might have mis-interpreted the rules, please let me know.
Elysianknight
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Postby Elysianknight » Mon May 23, 2011 3:36 pm

Not sure what the problem is? You've done it.
I don't have robot, but seems like you've solved your own problem
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Postby Sevya » Mon May 23, 2011 7:59 pm

So, I take it the biological frame (pg. 8 in Robots) is not what you're looking for.

Sevya
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Postby Gamael » Mon May 23, 2011 8:13 pm

There are alot of questions around how to interpret the rules.

Why are the legs so mush heavier then the arms. Is there some sort of printing error perhaps or does someone have a good idea abpout why the arms are so much lighter?

Is it wrong using the erect legs template or not? I might´ve missed something someone other has read about it.

How are the tactile sensors supposed to be used correctly?

Does androids have to use bio-cover to pass as humans or is it possible even without it (some sort of artificial rubber/plastic surface as with the sex organs, that doesn´t age, as I imagine bio-cover does)?

Here are some of the questions that I´ve stumbles upon as I tried to make this android. I am new here at the Traveller forum, but in other rpg forums there tend to be alot of creative thinkers that are very good at pointing out how to correctly use various rules or to discover flaws in builds, which is also good to learn of. Maybe there are many great minds out here as well that can help us gain better knowledge of a game we all love to play. I´m sure I´ve done several mistakes in doing this build for example. Since English is not my first language, I might´ve misunderstood alot of stuff. I´ve not played Traveller that long so I still concider myself a newbe concidering game mechanics.
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Postby Gamael » Mon May 23, 2011 8:24 pm

Hi Sevya. Well, making a robot from a biological frame must of course be the best way of creating a human-looking android (or, as it also is called - a cyborg) since it is all human, except for the brain! Can´t argue with you there! :D The real problem for me sets in when trying to replicate an artificial copy of a human (like Ash or Bishop in Alien films or the android R Daneel Olivaw, or the bi-centennial man in the classic Asimov robot novels).
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Postby apoc527 » Tue May 24, 2011 5:34 am

Gamael wrote:Hi Sevya. Well, making a robot from a biological frame must of course be the best way of creating a human-looking android (or, as it also is called - a cyborg) since it is all human, except for the brain! Can´t argue with you there! :D The real problem for me sets in when trying to replicate an artificial copy of a human (like Ash or Bishop in Alien films or the android R Daneel Olivaw, or the bi-centennial man in the classic Asimov robot novels).
See, I'd argue that Bishop IS a biological frame...at least, that's how I would have interpreted it.
-Apoc527
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Postby Gamael » Tue May 24, 2011 6:48 am

But isn´t a biological frame the same as a completely human body (with normal flesh, red blood etc), just with an artificial brain inside? From what I remember, Ash´s and Bishop´s bodies bled some sort of white artificial "blood" and Bishop generally seemed to hang along pretty fine while ripped in two in the second Alien movie. But then perhaps a bio-cover is just that, artificial skin and flesh, made to look like real human flesh, as opposite to a true biological frame? Then again, perhaps it is meant to be real living tissue, as with the later Cyberdyne system terminator machines, which to me makes more sense since damaged bio-cover has to be taken care of by a cyberneticist acording to the robot book.
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Postby Sevya » Wed May 25, 2011 11:58 pm

That would probably depend on definitions. A biologically grown human shaped body does not necessarily come from human DNA. To comply with local ethical standards, a company might feel compelled to develop a biological frame from other genetic stock. Why was their blood white? I have no idea, but it could be related to the core genome the body was derived from. From a modern point of view, such a project doesn't seem worth it, but we don't know what the background science behind it was like, or how badly they wanted humanoid robots. It probably would be more effective to build the robot the way Gamael suggested above, but I just wanted to make a case for the contrary.

Sevya
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Postby Sevya » Thu May 26, 2011 12:20 am

I'm going to go through the questions a few posts up. This is all my own thoughts, so don't take them as absolute answers.

Yes, the erect legs are the way you want to go with this.

From the description, I believe the intent of the tactile sensor is to place it on the end of a limb so that the robot has a discrete surface to feel with. There is not a way to give a non-biological robot the sense of feeling over it's entire body, like you want to do.

I think the bio-cover is a form of silicone rubber shaped and colored to look like flesh.

My guess with the relative mass of the arms and legs is that the legs have more structure to them, allowing them to hold up the weight of the robot. The arms are intended for fine manipulation and do not have the same structural reinforcement. Of course, that means that robots can't do push ups... :D

These are my guesses. There are flaws in the Robots book. It's kind of disappointing. I hope my thoughts help.

Sevya
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Postby Gamael » Thu May 26, 2011 9:45 am

Hi Sevya
Fun to have another view on the issues i the book!

I also choose to believe that the bio-cover can be both real flesh or artificial substitute to flesh. It still might have to be mended by a cybernecticist who knows how to repair soft tissue damage.

About the tactile sensors: I was afraid that it might be that way they intended. Oh well, can´t have it all I suppose...

About the arms I still find it very strange since the STR attribute is defined by the arms, not the legs. My personal guess lies more towards that it has been a simple writing error and that the arm weight is supposed to be 10 kg instead of 1 kg, or to put it in other words about 2/3 of the leg mass.

What do you think about these thoughts?
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Postby zero » Thu May 26, 2011 11:38 am

Theres also the square cube law about stopping a heavy robot sinking into the ground when they walk, extra weight is probably down to making the feet sturdy enough to support the body and not sink.
Thanks to Barnest2 for designing my Stubby 1.0 and for GJD in doing a model also!
Thanks to AndrewW and far-trader for deckplanning my new Darrian ship and Barnest2 for renders!

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