Does the CSC make Gauss Rifles over powered?

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zero
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Postby zero » Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:56 pm

As a Brit with very little knowledge in this area, just how long is a 5.56 w/cartridge?

My character uses a Gauss pistol (actually all the players armed themselves with it, guess its pretty popular :lol: ) so the size of a round would be helpful in picturing things.
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Postby barnest2 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:07 pm

Not long. The standard NATO round is 45mm's or 51mm's long
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Postby rust » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:20 pm

zero wrote:As a Brit with very little knowledge in this area, just how long is a 5.56 w/cartridge?
If you see a calibre mentioned, the basic data usually are given in the
form "A x B", for example "5.56 x 45". The first number is the diame-
ter of the round, the second number is its length.
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Postby barnest2 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:35 pm

Unless you are talking warships guns. Then calibre is a multiplier for length.
For instance, I believe the USS Iowa had a set of 16in/50cal cannons...
That is, a 16 inch bore width with a length of 800 inches (16x50).

Just thought I would confuse things.
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Postby rust » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:42 pm

barnest2 wrote: Just thought I would confuse things.
Good idea, please remind me to add the calibres measured in pounds,
like a "7-pounder", when there comes a good opportunity to add to
the confusion. :D
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Postby zero » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:44 pm

Ok, sounds like a gauss needle is 4.5cm long. Thanks for the info :)
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Postby barnest2 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:43 am

rust wrote: Good idea, please remind me to add the calibres measured in pounds,
like a "7-pounder", when there comes a good opportunity to add to
the confusion. :D
Well, the naval ones did normally denote the mass of the shell. So a naval 2-pounder had shells weighing 2 pounds. It's calibre is 40mm.
I believe the land version had the same calibre, but not the same shell, and so got the same notation, for some twisted reason.
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Postby Captain Jonah » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:01 am

At the small end ammo is listed as calibre x length.
At the big end is is listed for the weapon since above a size the ammo is designed for the weapon to handle I.E. 155mm

Back in the depths of time before it was possilbe to standardize on bore sizes it was the shot fired that classed the weapon, 2Lb, 8lb and the big 17pounder on your ships of the line.

Once tech caught up somewhat the limited number of weapons prior to WW2 left them with the same classification system so for example several british tanks armed with 2pounder cannons.

Those darned european types with thier odd metric ideas gave the yanks ideas and suddenly everyone was using 20mm, 50mm etc. With greater understanding of balistics and the increase in barrel length to improve firepower against ever heavier armour the use of barrel length as a multiple of calibre became widespread. Well apart from us british types who still fielded the 17pounder anti tank gun :D

Basicly if a man or battledress can carry it it's going to be classed as just the calibre so 7mm, 20mm etc. The ammo will be 7mm x 35mm.
Anything bigger classed as mounted weapons will be 30mm/60cal and the ammo is then just called 30mm ABAPSH (Anti battledress Armour Peircing Seeker Head) :twisted:
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Postby Eisenmann » Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:24 pm

5.56 x 45mm is going to be around for a long time.

- It's a known man-killer.
- It is accurate
- It has good range
- Which do you want to shoot/move/communicate with? 30 round or 20 round mags? (When compared to 7.62x51)*1
- Works effectively in many environments on multiple platforms; carbine, rifle, SAW.*2
- Is easily used in said weapons platforms by people of great varying body types and sizes. The AK's bore axis with the increased recoil makes managing the weapon difficult.
- 7.62x39/AK has been over-hyped.
- Huge logistics implications and training costs.
- The costs and ability to procure and maintain body armor is often under-stated.

You can think of 5.56 as a glorified spitball but remember that it's traveling 3,000 FPS.

All that said, are there good alternatives? Yep? 6.8 SPC is an excellent choice.

*1 Okay, an AK has a 30 round mag but have you ever tried to shoot from a prone position with one? Or how about carrying the danged cumbersome mags? There's a reason why so many in the 3rd world carry an extra mag or two in their track pants. They suck in a chest rig/on body armor.

*2 The amount of fire that a fire team can unleash on a target is hellacious and is the cornerstone of fire and maneuver. 5.56 NATO does the trick. Want some more rock 'n roll? Add an m240 to the team. Need to really reach out and touch someone? That's why God invented the Designated Marksman who has a 30 caliber+ Evil Black Rifle.
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Postby justacaveman » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:51 am

IIRC the Gauss round in FF&S (From TNE) was shown as being 20mm long and weighing 4 grams ( The rule for gauss round length was 5 x the diameter I think.). This would mean that it was made from very dense material.
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Postby DFW » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:37 pm

justacaveman wrote:IIRC the Gauss round in FF&S (From TNE) was shown as being 20mm long and weighing 4 grams ( The rule for gauss round length was 5 x the diameter I think.). This would mean that it was made from very dense material.
Tungsten at 19.35 g/cc would fit the bill.
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Postby zero » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:59 pm

Pretty dense, a little easier to picture the kind of damage something like that could do now.
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Postby Captain Jonah » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:14 pm

Thats just tungsten. Push the round up to something with a really high density.

Also as far as range goes, I seem to remember the rounds were darts somewhere not needles, had fins on them. May have been TNE, not sure.
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Postby justacaveman » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:47 pm

IIRC in CT Gauss rounds were described as Jacketed Expanding Bullets with a Penetrating Core, so I always pictured them as a thin shell of stainless steel with a layer of lead surrounding a very strong and dense core.

TNE did show gauss rounds as being finned in the Reformation Coalition Equipment Guide, but I ignored that since fins are useless without an atmosphere, and this would have precluded their wide use by the Imperial Marines (Besides CT said they were spin-stabilized through magnetic bias.).
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Postby justacaveman » Sun May 01, 2011 12:02 am

I have created some variant gauss and laser weapons (about a dozen) of various tech levels, including some semi-auto civilian models for my game. I have a complete write-up that includes stats that I created for the missing 8mm Gauss Sniper Rifle info in CSC. I have it available in several formats and can email it to anyone who wants it.

I also have a House Rule that makes Laser and Plasma weapons Semi-Armour Piercing, and Fusion weapons as Full AP. I considered making Plasma weapons Full AP, and Fusion weapons as Super AP, but that seemed to be a bit of overkill ( Not that overkill is bad mind you, but I wanted G-garriers to be more than big targets.).
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Postby DFW » Sun May 01, 2011 2:25 pm

[quote="Captain Jonah"]Thats just tungsten. Push the round up to something with a really high density./quote]

Like radioactives?
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Postby Captain Jonah » Sun May 01, 2011 3:10 pm

DFW wrote:
Captain Jonah wrote:Thats just tungsten. Push the round up to something with a really high density./quote]

Like radioactives?
Marine corp motto.

Shoot em till they glow, then turn the lights off :twisted:
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

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Postby apoc527 » Sun May 01, 2011 3:14 pm

DFW wrote:
Captain Jonah wrote:Thats just tungsten. Push the round up to something with a really high density./quote]

Like radioactives?
Or superdense.
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Postby rust » Sun May 01, 2011 3:22 pm

apoc527 wrote: Or superdense.
This would not work. According to Traveller New Era's supplement Fire,
Fusion & Steel superdense has 187.5 % of the density of iron, giving it
a density of 14.76 g per cubic centimeter, compared to uran's 19.16 g
per cubic centimeter. It seems Traveller's superdense is not really "su-
per dense" at all.
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Postby DFW » Sun May 01, 2011 3:42 pm

rust wrote:
apoc527 wrote: Or superdense.
This would not work. According to Traveller New Era's supplement Fire,
Fusion & Steel superdense has 187.5 % of the density of iron, giving it
a density of 14.76 g per cubic centimeter, compared to uran's 19.16 g
per cubic centimeter. It seems Traveller's superdense is not really "su-
per dense" at all.
Makes sense. 'super dense' doesn't necessarily equate to super hard or tough. Which are the primary attributes needed for a hull.

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