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Grav Floater question on page 103 in PDF rules.

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:19 am
by deejaay
I'm currently running the Type-S module where the characters scale a volcano to retrieve what will be their first ship. The gist of the story is the adventure of the them climbing and battling cliffs and altitude sickness. On of the players said that he will use his 'Grav Floater' (page 103 in pdf rules) and just glide on up. I did not know he had one...too funny. That particular device would ruin the whole module's intent. At first i was prepared to role with it and weave some improvised adventure into the failed module. He insisted that he had been carrying it around town. I informed him that would have encumbered him dramatically, he quickly replied that it was only 6 kg. The rest of the table badgered him that he was NOT walking around with a Floater strapped to his back. He conceded and I was able to continue the adventure as intended. That night I went looking for that insidious piece of equipment and found it. But I could not see anywhere stating how much it weighed (Can't trust those PCs). Plus I saw where it cost a measly 500 credits too! Got to be a typo. Maybe 5k up to 50k credits at least. Otherwise everyone is going to be buying these of the shelf and making short work of any terrain challenged module.
So I'm asking around if anybody would have a good guess as to the weight and a realistic cost (maybe it is actually 500 credits).

Re: Grav Floater question on page 103 in PDF rules.

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:51 am
by rust
deejaay wrote: So I'm asking around if anybody would have a good guess as to the weight and a realistic cost (maybe it is actually 500 credits).
Since it is a platform big enough to stand on, with a grav module and suf-
ficient power to reach orbit despite its low speed of 40 km/h, I would ex-
pect it to be rather heavy, at least much closer to 50 kg than 6 kg.

It is a precursor of the grav belt, and only one technology level lower. Al-
though it is bigger and slower than the grav belt, it basically uses the sa-
me technology for the same function. Since the grav belt costs 100,000
credits, I would expect it to sell for no less (and probably more) than
50,000 credits at the tech level where it is introduced.

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:55 am
by AndrewW
Not the same but Alien Module 1: Aslan has a TL 12 Personal Grav Platform for 76,860 Cr.

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:06 am
by Dave Chase
Don't have the book infront of me, but isn't that item used to attach and move bulky/heavy items?

Not a personal use device from my memory check.

Dave Chase

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:55 am
by vitalis6969
I would have allowed it but I would have limited it to movement like a Levitate spell. i.e. your PC would only have been able to traverse straight up with no lateral propulsion supplied, so if your volcano is angled or hill shape he would have wound up parallel to the rim but far far away. I would have gotten even meaner with it and had the volcanic turbulent hot winds start blowing him all over creation and very possibly spilling him from the platform.

It is a platform for moving heavy things, it is not a magic carpet. :roll:

-V

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:56 am
by AndrewW
Dave Chase wrote:Don't have the book infront of me, but isn't that item used to attach and move bulky/heavy items?

Not a personal use device from my memory check.
Must have failed your skill check...
A grav floater is a forerunner of the grav belt, a platform upon which a single person can stand and be carried along..."

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:36 am
by Lord High Munchkin
As has been pointed out... they don't provide sideways movement, just up and down.

Mind you, if they had a battery operated fan... all bets are off.

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:47 pm
by Nuclear Fridge Magnet
Lord High Munchkin wrote:As has been pointed out... they don't provide sideways movement, just up and down.

Mind you, if they had a battery operated fan... all bets are off.
I've always viewed them as a high-tech stepladder myself. The best depiction is in Star Trek The Motion Picture, when Admiral Kirk arrives on the Enterprise bridge. There's a tech on a small floating platform, with his head in the ceiling. Later in the scene, he's lowering himself back to the deck.
So, yes, they can be space-saving gadgets for the ship's engineer. Not rules loopholes.

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:11 pm
by DFW
Lord High Munchkin wrote:As has been pointed out... they don't provide sideways movement, just up and down.
Actually, per the rules, quite incorrect. The are a vehicle and just a lower tech, lower performing type of vehicle that lead to "Grav Belts". Their speed is 40 kph and -2 agility.

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:35 pm
by Sturn
I would agree with DFW. The stats/description say it can move 40 kph without mentioning that it can only move up and down at 40 kph.

Also, MGT's vehicle creation rules has Grav and "Lifter" vehicles. Lifters primarily are for up/down movement, but they still provide lateral movement at a slower speed then more advanced grav modules. So, it's a more primitive Lifter version of a Grav Belt where you have to stand on a larger platform then simply strapping a belt on.

It has to be based on a vehicle from CT, probably many of us can recall the image of the man (vargr?) standing on a small platform with rails around it so he doesn't fall off? I can't recall where it is from or find the image online. It definitely can't be strapped on your back and can travel more then just adjust altitudes.

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:04 pm
by BP
Sturn, remember that image as well, if not Traveller, maybe it came from Star Frontiers?

(And yeah - grav floater isn't limited to up/down and is ridiculously under-priced ;) )

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:27 am
by Nuclear Fridge Magnet
It was in an old issue of Challenge magazine, focusing on the Vargr. (Gah! Can’t believe I forgot that!!) :oops:

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:37 am
by Jericho
I'm pretty sure the pic of the Vargr on the floater is also in one of the Mega Traveller books as well since its mention provokes a vague memory and I've never read an issue of Challenge magazine

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:39 am
by DFW
BP wrote: and is ridiculously under-priced ;) )


Only if you disregard grav as being a "ubiquitous" form of vehicle... ;)

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:18 am
by simonh
DFW wrote:
BP wrote: and is ridiculously under-priced ;) )


Only if you disregard grav as being a "ubiquitous" form of vehicle... ;)


Or if you regard price consistency as being in any way important. Not that I want to get into the Robots thread again.

We only have three data points for grav vehicles in the TMB.

Code: Select all

Air Raft  TL 8   4 people Cr275,000
Floater   TL 11  1 person Cr500
Grav Belt TL 12  1 person Cr100,000
Spot the odd one out.

Clearly it should be cheaper than both an air raft and a grav belt, but from 200 to 500 times cheaper than both does seem a bit off.

Simon Hibbs

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:02 pm
by DFW
simonh wrote: We only have three data points for grav vehicles in the TMB.

Code: Select all

Air Raft  TL 8   4 people Cr275,000
Floater   TL 11  1 person Cr500
Grav Belt TL 12  1 person Cr100,000
Spot the odd one out.

Clearly it should be cheaper than both an air raft and a grav belt, but from 200 to 500 times cheaper than both does seem a bit off.

Simon Hibbs
Absolutely agree. My point was that the "Floater" because of pricing, is the ONLY Grav vehicle that allows Grav vehicles to be "Ubiquitous". The other pricing means that they are as rare as a $300k Ferrari on the streets
of Backwater, Kansas.

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:28 pm
by far-trader
Ah, that's clearer. Couldn't agree more DFW :)

One way to look at it would be the Air/Raft and Grav/Belt are in fact high performance specialized machines*. Designed for extreme conditions, high performance, and use across many different worlds. So they would be about as common as high performance cars. And as pricey.

* I do not agree with the MgT listing of them as "civilian" vehicles

Civilians, limited to a single world generally, would have no need for such a large and robust grav vehicle as the Air/Raft. Nor would they have much need in most professions for something like a Grav/Belt. If in fact they had any need at all for a grav vehicle they would have something smaller, cheaper, and far far less capable.

I still think Cr500 is a ridiculously low price though and must surely be an error. Taking even those few data points it should be at least Cr5,000 (a ground car is Cr6,000) and more likely Cr50,000 unless you presume a lot of restrictions on it. Like very limited power duration. Minutes, not hours (making the claim of orbital altitude moot).

As a side note, I just noticed the price on the grav carrier there. Cr15,000,000?! Seriously? That's gotta be a mistake too.

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:03 pm
by Rikki Tikki Traveller
I would argue that the Floater is like Luke's Skimmer in Star Wars IV. It doesn't really move up and down. It stays a fixed distance off of the ground. Thus it can move easily over a surface (Floating), but is NOT used like a plane, more like a ground car.

Also, in Star Wars VI, there are Bantha's and such pulling floating platforms around. I envisioned the Floater as something like that, but with a slow propulsion system.

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:19 pm
by Egil Skallagrimsson
Just when you thing you've straightened out every wringle ....

Yeah, grav floater at 500Cr, ridiculous, they probably meant 50000Cr.

The grav carrier is very inconsistant with the Military Vehicles supplement that gives a TL15 grav carrier at just over 16MCr, BUT 15MCr of that is for a huge fusion gun (spec isn't quite the same in other respects as well), the core book suggests a grav carrier with a FGMP, so an equivilent grav carrier would cost a little over 1MCr. A bit cheaper, though perhaps under priced considering the capabilities of such a vehicle.

Of the supplements the vehicle design ones seem to have the most difficulty conforming with the core rule book, I tend to use them for ideas, but hand wave a lot of details.

Egil

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:21 pm
by Egil Skallagrimsson
Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:I would argue that the Floater is like Luke's Skimmer in Star Wars IV. It doesn't really move up and down. It stays a fixed distance off of the ground. Thus it can move easily over a surface (Floating), but is NOT used like a plane, more like a ground car.

Also, in Star Wars VI, there are Bantha's and such pulling floating platforms around. I envisioned the Floater as something like that, but with a slow propulsion system.
Perhaps, and all good stuff, but the floater described in the core book is clearly capable of lateral movement at 40kph.

Egil

Edit: And can "achieve any altitude up to orbit" !!