Anti-missile weapons

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Nobby-W
Mongoose
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:10 pm

Re: Anti-missile weapons

Postby Nobby-W » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:30 am

barnest2 wrote:Ok, so this isn't entirely a travller question but i was just pondering the idea.
At todays technology level, would it be possible to create an anti missile missile. I know we have stuff like CIWS, but i mean a proper missile.
If we already have something like this would someone link me too it? Oh and i dont mean stuff like the patriot system, i mean missiles ot be fired at things like air-to-air missiles.
thanks in advance.
Yes, these systems do exist; examples include the Rolling Airframe Missile system and tank based systems such as Arena and Trophy.
wbnc
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1552
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: Anti-missile weapons

Postby wbnc » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:52 pm

I know I am jumping in late, but as much as I would like to see it the difficulties of shooting down a star ship grade missile is pretty daunting.

I did some quick math and came up with a volume of 1.16 cubic meters and change for a standard missile.

12 missiles per ton, 14 cubic feet per ton/12 = approximately 1.16 cubic meters.

if the missile is 1 meter long it is 37 centimeters across. it is still half the size of an AGM-65 maverick missile.( 249cmx30Cm, or 5.84cubic meters ) It is accelerating at 10gee ( as per Highguard Mgt). That makes it both extremely compact, and extremely agile. far more agile than anything in inventory currently.

Since a missile is capable of hitting a target from teh distant (50,000km) in five rounds (30 minutes) it is moving at around 100,000km (62,000mph, or mach 81.7) at maximum velocity....which means it would move 0.1722 miles(909 feet/277.063m) in 100th of a second

at a dstance of less than 1000km, the system would have to lock on, track, fire, and intercept in less than .62 seconds....only a laser is capable of that sort of reaction time....

And this is for a missile that only makes minor corrections to track a target, if it's actively avoiding incoming fire...well the whole scenario just went from bad, "Blast it all.... just put extra armor on the ship and forget about it...."
F33D
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1645
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 1:13 pm

Re: Anti-missile weapons

Postby F33D » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:11 pm

barnest2 wrote:Ok, so this isn't entirely a travller question but i was just pondering the idea.
At todays technology level, would it be possible to create an anti missile missile. I know we have stuff like CIWS, but i mean a proper missile.
Sure. THE USN has a great one. The SeaRAM system by Raytheon
User avatar
Reynard
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3496
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:03 pm

Re: Anti-missile weapons

Postby Reynard » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:04 pm

How about an light autocannon (low tech) or a light gauss cannon system in a turret that sprays an area at adjacent range? Relatively cheap.
phavoc
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4910
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:13 pm

Re: Anti-missile weapons

Postby phavoc » Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:32 pm

The Vehicle books cover weaponry intended to intercept missiles, artillery shells and other related incoming fire, using both lasers and projectile weapons. Plus things like chaff and decoys.

There's really no reason why this can't be translated into starship weapons too.
wbnc
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1552
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: Anti-missile weapons

Postby wbnc » Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:02 pm

phavoc wrote:The Vehicle books cover weaponry intended to intercept missiles, artillery shells and other related incoming fire, using both lasers and projectile weapons. Plus things like chaff and decoys.

There's really no reason why this can't be translated into starship weapons too.
Hmm something like a laser based Phalanx/CIWS system. I'd make it a ships system instead of a weapons system so it doesn't burn up hard points. and Give it somewhere around 1 pt of star-ship damage

If you made it automated using the ships fire control software rating as it's bonus, you could give the ship an automatic point defense attack against incoming missiles without using up a reaction, or requiring the gunner to interact with the system.

Chaff:
chaff is available as a variant ammo type for sandcasters.

Interceptors...hmm..tricky since missiles technically cant be inside short rage....but if you used a "interceptor" variant ammo for sand caster barrels/missile turrets you could fire a cloud of self propelled seeking warheads with just enough punch to shatter a missile on impact. they would have almost no range, adjacent only..and wouldnt do more than scuff the paint of a starship...but it would allow a ship to deal with those pesky missile swarms, and torpedo spreads.
Condottiere
Warlord Mongoose
Posts: 8127
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Anti-missile weapons

Postby Condottiere » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:02 pm

Caster cluster concussion charge.
wbnc
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1552
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: Anti-missile weapons

Postby wbnc » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:08 pm

Condottiere wrote:Caster cluster concussion charge.
yeah something like that....a lot of times you dont have to invent entirely new systems or mechanics..you just add a new twist to an older system/mechanic :D
Condottiere
Warlord Mongoose
Posts: 8127
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Anti-missile weapons

Postby Condottiere » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:24 pm

I've always mainatined that the sandcaster is under utilzed and not shown to full potential.

Pulse lasers had a potential for CIWS, if you multiplied the number of lenses, which I think was at one time mentioned as upto sixteen.
wbnc
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1552
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: Anti-missile weapons

Postby wbnc » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:49 pm

Condottiere wrote:I've always mainatined that the sandcaster is under utilzed and not shown to full potential.

Pulse lasers had a potential for CIWS, if you multiplied the number of lenses, which I think was at one time mentioned as upto sixteen.
sandcasters are a quick easy way to launch a payload. if you can figure out the effect and the cost variant barrels would give a crew a whole bag of dirty tricks.

I was trying to figure out how to work out a decoy/crybaby that would spoof the launching vessels emissions and thermal signature to enemy sensors...more than just a missile decoy it would match the launching ships maneuvers or fly off on it's own to lead a pursuing ship on a wild goose chase...unfortunately packing that much hardware into a decoy barrel would be a trick, and the decoy would be expensive as heck for a one shot item.
Condottiere
Warlord Mongoose
Posts: 8127
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Anti-missile weapons

Postby Condottiere » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:39 am

Economically, the cost of the decoy over loss of ship, repairs or mission failure.

You may just want to blind the missile locked on to you when it's moving in one direction, while you jink the ship in another. Maybe an advanced equivalent of a magnesium flare, perhaps it would be termed a solar flare that hits at multiple radiations.
Old timer
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:37 pm
Location: Oxford, U.K

Re: Anti-missile weapons

Postby Old timer » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:46 am

Do not know if this is what people are looking for, but Gypsy Knight games Clement sector setting ship design book has rules for point defence systems.
Nobby-W
Mongoose
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:10 pm

Re: Anti-missile weapons

Postby Nobby-W » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:16 pm

Condottiere wrote:I've always mainatined that the sandcaster is under utilzed and not shown to full potential.

Pulse lasers had a potential for CIWS, if you multiplied the number of lenses, which I think was at one time mentioned as upto sixteen.
You're thinking of Striker, I guess - you could specify a number of 'lenses' for a pulse laser with the base figure for a typical naval 1t pulse laser being 3.

I did some HG rules for this - trading off a bonus to hit (pr a penalty for incoming missiles to penetrate) against a penalty on damage, plus 2t and 3t barbettes as options for armament.
Condottiere
Warlord Mongoose
Posts: 8127
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Anti-missile weapons

Postby Condottiere » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:47 pm

A pulse laser does have a more scifi feel to it, and you won't be running out of ammo.

Of course, if I knew that was the last ditch defence, I'd reflec coat my missiles.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests