Hit locations and armor

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SnowDog
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Hit locations and armor

Postby SnowDog » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:09 am

Hi,

I know that MongTrav doesn't have hit locations for people. I still like them and thought that I should implement them for two reasons.

1) It helps to describe the damage if you know where it hit.

2) You can tell if armor or cover helps you.

Still, I thought to keep the normal damage procedure instead of giving hit points for all the hit locations.

Now, do you think that it will work just out of the package this way? I mean does the damage reduction for a vest mean that in principle only hits to torso would actually benefit from the armor but not hits to head or limbs? If so, then this is pretty straight forward procedure and won't make combat much slower.
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Re: Hit locations and armor

Postby rust » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:19 am

SnowDog wrote: Still, I thought to keep the normal damage procedure instead of giving hit points for all the hit locations.
It is of course possible, but it creates a plausibility problem: The charac-
ter would seem to have the total amount of hit points in each of his hit
locations, and for example his head could take the same damage in the
same way as his thigh, while in real life a bullet to the head and a bullet
to the thigh have quite different consequences.
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Postby SnowDog » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:05 am

Good point. I tried to streamline the damage handling and forgot that very basic thing in the process :(

Now things get more complicated. Either I should include damage modifiers to hit locations or modify hit location based on how well it hit (or how much damage was done).

From these two possibilities I would probably go for damage modifier. Maybe I would just drop Endurance from head and torso hits? This way head and torso wounds would be more quickly debilitating than limb hits where Endurance is reduced first (like in normal rules).

There is still one thing. What if Endurance is already reduced to 0? Then it wouldn't matter where it would hit :P
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Postby CosmicGamer » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:31 pm

Personally, I do like the concept of hit locations but overall I prefer a simple combat resolution without a lot of dice rolls and table lookups. A more complicated system may be more realistic statistically, but I find that it disturbs the realistic flow of the game if during game play it takes 2 minutes to resolve a 6 second round.

If the characters are not fully armored, they are still usually wearing armor that covers all but their hands, feet and head. Unless it is a sniper 'called' shot (which I would handle specially) I'm ok with assuming the armor is protecting the character.

Using hit locations can make things unrealistic in the following fashion too: A hit causes damage to a arm or leg and takes endurance down to 1 point. Wouldn't this seriously effect the characters ability to move (leg hit) or shoot (arm hit). Wouldn't this effect the characters strength with the hit limb? But no, only endurance is affected.

But like I said, I do like the concept of hit locations so that characters can roll play the effects of the hit with more detail. If you come up with something good I'd computerize it though so that it doesn't slow down the game.
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Postby Bygoneyrs » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:59 pm

Here are my House Rules that I have used for the last 20+ yrs....

Using a d20 to determin the Hit Location:

Location:...Man.vs.Man..Shorter to..Taller to....Missile
....................................Taller....... Shorter.... Attacks

Head ..............01..............--...........01--04......01--02
Rt.Arm ........02--04........01--02.......05--08.........03
Lt.Arm ........05--07........03--04.......09--12.........04
Chest ..........08--12........05--07.......13--16.......05--11
Abdomen .....13--16........08--12.......17--18.......12--16
Rt.Leg ..........17--18........13--16..........19..........17--18
Lt.Leg ...........19--20........17--20..........20..........19--20

Called Shots(Mods):

-4/-20% Head
-3/-15% Arm
-2/-1-% Chest
-2/-10% Abdomen
-2/-10% Leg

Next to figure out the Breakdown of the amount of total damage a hit location can take in Hit Point damage, follow this rule of thumb:

Head: 1/3 of total HPs
Rt/Lt Arm: 1/4 of total HPs
Chest: 2/5 of total HPs
Abdomen: 1/3 of total HPs
Rt/Lt Leg: 1/3 of total HPs

NOTE: If you add up the total amount of HPs the body "could" sustain more damage than the PC actually has, BUT just keep a running total of how much actual damage the PC has taken and when they reach Zero "0" they pass out. I have someone actually die at negative there Con/End score.

ALSO note that within my system Armor Absorbs some damage as well too, and being that most of this system was set up for AD&D/ D&D v2.5/ or D&D v3.5 here is that absorb rate for Fantasy Armor:

Armor Type: Absorption per location:
Nude/Clothes 0
Padded 1
Leather-soft 1
Studded-Leather 2
Hide 2
Scale Mail 3
Chain Mail 4
Ring Mail 4
Banded Mail 5
Splint Mail 5
Bronze Plate Mail 6
Plate Mail 7
Field Plate Mail 8
Full Plate 9

I also had it broken down in the amount of Structure points each set of armor could take (number of hits) in any given location, and after that the pc lost the armor within that area on their body until they replaced or repaired it. Also each Armor type affected a PCs movement rate in Ft/Cbt segment they could move. I have quite a bit of alternative House Rules for Cbt and etc as well too.

My system has worked for me within my AD&D and Traveller campaigns now for over 25+ yrs, and I have been RPGing now for over 33+ yrs.

I hope this all helps!


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Postby Loz » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:09 pm

White Dwarf (around issue 27/28, I think) had a Hit Location system for Traveller which was very crunchy but pretty good. I don't have that issue any more, but it might be worth seeing if there's an online copy someplace, or tracking down the magazine itself.
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Postby Colin » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:19 pm

2 Foot 1/2 damage, DEX
3 Lower Leg 1/2 damage, DEX
4 Upper Leg 1/2 damage, DEX
5 Groin Full Damage, END
6 Torso Full Damage, END
7 Torso Full Damage, END
8 Torso Full Damage, END
9 Chest Full Damage, END
10 Lower Arm 1/2 damage, DEX
11 Upper Arm (and Shoulder) 1/2 damage, DEX
12 Head Full Damage, INT
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Postby CosmicGamer » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:12 pm

Colin,
When would you calculate the amount of damage, before effect is added or after, before armor is subtracted or after...?
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Postby Colin » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:53 am

After armor and Effect. Say 8 points total goes through on the arm. That's 4 points, subtracted from DEX.
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Postby SnowDog » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:20 am

Thanks for the great ideas, guys!

Colin, when does the STR begin to drop? When END and DEX are already zero or when END is zero and the player can choose whether to reduce DEX or STR? Or somehow else?
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Postby Colin » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:36 pm

A shot to the arm that used all DEX would go next to the Stat of the player's choice. After any stat goes to 0, thenext one is player's choice(player who got shot).

And one more thing. Head shots damage Int AND End
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Postby SnowDog » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:14 am

Colin wrote:A shot to the arm that used all DEX would go next to the Stat of the player's choice. After any stat goes to 0, thenext one is player's choice(player who got shot).

And one more thing. Head shots damage Int AND End
So, a shot to arm that reduces DEX to zero, the player (victim) can choose if the rest of the damage is used to reduce STR or END?

For the head shot the damage reduces both INT and END an equal amount? For example, a character is shot to head and receives 6 points of damage, so his INT and END are reduced by 6 points?
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Postby Gruffty the Hiver » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:21 am

Or perhaps split the damage down the middle - 3 points to Int, 3 points to Dex? In the case of an odd number damage result (3, 5, 7, 9, etc) simply give the extra point of damage to INT, as the head controls the rest of the body and is generally more sensitive to damage...
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Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:31 pm

Colin wrote:2 Foot 1/2 damage, DEX
3 Lower Leg 1/2 damage, DEX
4 Upper Leg 1/2 damage, DEX
5 Groin Full Damage, END
6 Torso Full Damage, END
7 Torso Full Damage, END
8 Torso Full Damage, END
9 Chest Full Damage, END
10 Lower Arm 1/2 damage, DEX
11 Upper Arm (and Shoulder) 1/2 damage, DEX
12 Head Full Damage, INT+END
(EDIT: I added in your INT+END change above)

This is quite elegant, follows the 2d6 principle of Traveller and looks like it would work very well.

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Postby Colin » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:54 am

And it's Open Content as well. It was initially developed for 2320AD.

Yes, damage to the head is applied to both Int and End. It's not divided. So if a shot does 12 points of damage, that's 12 points to Int AND 12 points to End.
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Postby SnowDog » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:06 am

Okay, thanks! Looks very nice, I might well have to ... steal this system for my personal use with Traveller.
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Postby Gruffty the Hiver » Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:31 pm

Colin wrote:And it's Open Content as well. It was initially developed for 2320AD.
Yoinked! :mrgreen:
Yes, damage to the head is applied to both Int and End. It's not divided. So if a shot does 12 points of damage, that's 12 points to Int AND 12 points to End.
Ooh, nasty nasty nasty! But effective, and in keeping with the level of lethality expected of Traveller :D
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Postby FreeTrav » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:34 pm

I'd very much appreciate it if someone would put this together into an article for Freelance Traveller, credit to all appropriate contributors, please!
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Postby zace66 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:34 am

I have been using the hit locations out of runequest. Works well.
My players also liked it.

It simply came up as one player was wearing a piece of chest armour - why would that give him 12 points of armour all over his body when it only covers his chest.

The system suggested above works very nicely too.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
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Postby Colin » Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:43 am

FreeTrav wrote:I'd very much appreciate it if someone would put this together into an article for Freelance Traveller, credit to all appropriate contributors, please!
Gimme a couple of weeks and I can add a bunch of different armour types to it, too.

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