B5-Third Imperium crossover

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Voltron64
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B5-Third Imperium crossover

Postby Voltron64 » Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:35 pm

Let's just say the old cliche of a interdimensional wormhole somehow opens up between the station of Babylon 5 circa 2258 and the Regina Subsector of the Third Imperium circa 1120 (it's all probably Grandfather's fault to be honest). What would result when the civilizations of Traveller and B5 come in contact? What would they think of each other, of their societies, their technologies, and how greatly their respective universes would change?

I know the Imperium would get a headache just dealing with the Psi Corps courting with the Zhodani and Grandfather would probably come out of retirement, intrigued by the war between the Vorlons and the Shadows.

Comments? Thoughts?
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Postby lastbesthope » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:23 pm

If such a wormhole were to open anywhere near Bab 5 it would be in Sector 14.

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Postby Twin Agate Dragons » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:34 pm

lastbesthope wrote:If such a wormhole were to open anywhere near Bab 5 it would be in Sector 14.
Considering that Baylon 4 disapperead from Sector 14, that does make a lot of sense.

As a matter of fact, if I were to include a Bab 5 - 3I crossover, I'd rewrite B5 and 3I history to make it so that Babylon 4 appearad in the Regina subsector in 2255.
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Re: B5-Third Imperium crossover

Postby AdrianH » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:06 am

Voltron64 wrote:I know the Imperium would get a headache just dealing with the Psi Corps courting with the Zhodani and Grandfather would probably come out of retirement, intrigued by the war between the Vorlons and the Shadows.
The first question is whose time frame is in effect. Babylon 5 takes place in the 23rd century AD, the 3rd Imperium's year 0 is 4523 AD, so either it's way in Traveller's past, way in B5's future, or whoever goes through the wormhole is in for an almighty culture shock when he finds out the new date. :)

The Psi Corps would probably try to take over the Psionics Institutes. Renegade telepaths like Byron would seek sanctuary in the Zhodani Consulate. The Telepath War would become the next Frontier War, especially if the Shadows had any say in the matter. If they got it right, the Minbari would ally with the Zhodani, Earthforce would ally with the 3rd Imperium, and the Shadows get two wars for the price of one - Sixth Frontier War and Second Earth-Minbari War. And someone would make a fortune selling meson screens to the B5 powers.

The meeting between Lorien and Grandfather would be interesting, although it's unlikely any member of a Younger Race would be present.
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Postby The Chef » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:41 am

unless lorien is grandfather... as the first of the first ones he could be!
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Re: B5-Third Imperium crossover

Postby zanwot » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:05 am

The timeline does not need to be a problem. the biggest problem I think is that the Earth Alliance shares so much with the Solomani...
AdrianH wrote: The meeting between Lorien and Grandfather would be interesting, although it's unlikely any member of a Younger Race would be present.
the Chef wrote: unless lorien is grandfather... as the first of the first ones he could be!
That is an interesting subject, I see 4 possible explanations:

* Obvious one: Lorien is indeed Grandfather (B5 = 3I). As a matter of fact they are so similar one gets the felling Lorien really is inspired from Grandfather. The questiobn now is: is it him who created the door between the two universes, or not? And which was the original "real" universe, if there is such a thing?

* Lorien is an uplifted primitive Aslan (B5 < 3I) who rebelled against Grandfather and went to create his own pocket universe. This could explain a few things about Aslan being "left alone" by the Ancients.

* The Droyne are one of the *other* ancient races from b5 (B5 > 3I), who upon exil to the "rim" decided instead to go into a separate universe to be able to live the simple lives they like. Grandfather is the only one who did not "settle down", and messed up their paradise dimension quite a bit.

* Lorien and Granfather are equivalent figures as the universes would sugest (B5 = 3I), but then the question becomes: who is their "father"?
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Postby Dave Chase » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:07 pm

Grandfather is hiding from Lorien because he has messed with the Humans (and other races) memories.

Due to changes made by Grandfather, Humans don't realize just who they really are.

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Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:51 pm

The OTU would be VERY interested in B5 Tachyon Communications and Jump Gates.

B5 would be very interested in Meson Weapons/Screens and Black Globe Generators. The Jump Drive would also be of interest since it avoids Hyperspace and all it's problems (tides, weird pockets, etc).

PPGs would be of interest to the Imperial Marines.

The many-thousand-year-old Gravitic Technology of the OTU would be of interest to humans (at least). Judging from the B5 setting, I think most of the younger races would be very interested in the OTU Gravitic Technology. Delenn mentioned that artificial gravity was a by-product of their propulsion system, so it may be that the small-scale gravitics we see in the OTU (Air/Rafts) don't exist in the B5 universe except among the Older Races.
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Postby lastbesthope » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:38 pm

Twin Dragons wrote:
lastbesthope wrote:If such a wormhole were to open anywhere near Bab 5 it would be in Sector 14.
Considering that Baylon 4 disapperead from Sector 14, that does make a lot of sense.

As a matter of fact, if I were to include a Bab 5 - 3I crossover, I'd rewrite B5 and 3I history to make it so that Babylon 4 appearad in the Regina subsector in 2255.
Thre problem being established continuity means it could only happen after B5 rescues the crew, whilst Valen/Sinclair is on his way 'back' to the Shadow War circa 1250-ish, we know they made no unscheduled stops between 2260 B5 stealing B4 and it reappearing in 2258.

Of course nothing says you have to follow canon, but just be ready if your players throw it at you.

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Postby Dave Chase » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:35 pm

lastbesthope wrote: Thre problem being established continuity means it could only happen after B5 rescues the crew, whilst Valen/Sinclair is on his way 'back' to the Shadow War circa 1250-ish, we know they made no unscheduled stops between 2260 B5 stealing B4 and it reappearing in 2258.

Of course nothing says you have to follow canon, but just be ready if your players throw it at you.

LBH
Ah, but who says it stayed around after the war. It could have warped out again to ????

Because if it stayed, wouldn't the Mimbari know more about the workings of the Humans and know about how they lived, who they were, their history and more.

But according to the history, they knew nothing about the humans.

Just my spin on the what if.

That way, it would have both Mimbari and Human tech on it. :)


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Postby alex_greene » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:52 pm

The Psionics Institutes would love to get their hands on Technomage technology.

And quite what the Zhodani would make of Psi - Corps, I couldn't possibly imagine ...
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Postby captainsmirk » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:17 pm

Dave Chase wrote:Mimbari
Its an N!!! Its an N!!!

:lol:

I'll get my coat...


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Postby Dave Chase » Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:18 am

captainsmirk wrote:
Dave Chase wrote:Mimbari
Its an N!!! Its an N!!!

:lol:

I'll get my coat...


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Yeah, yeah, It's a N.

2 Gravities, you will spell correctly or
3 Gravities, you will find it hard to breath until you learn to spell correctly
4 Gravities, you are weak minded and foolish body human, you will die
5 Gravities....

Wait a minute, how could a ring create all those gravities with out being on a MiNbari ship or station?

And how could such a small thing like that particular ring cause such a localized effect without effecting everything else around it.

I'll tell you(then have to run and hide from every MiNbari for the rest of my life.)

They have PSI powers, the claim it's technology but its truely PSI at a level that we just can understand. :D

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Postby lastbesthope » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:51 pm

Dave Chase wrote:
lastbesthope wrote: Thre problem being established continuity means it could only happen after B5 rescues the crew, whilst Valen/Sinclair is on his way 'back' to the Shadow War circa 1250-ish, we know they made no unscheduled stops between 2260 B5 stealing B4 and it reappearing in 2258.

Of course nothing says you have to follow canon, but just be ready if your players throw it at you.

LBH
Ah, but who says it stayed around after the war. It could have warped out again to ????
JMS himself in the comic "In Valen's Name"
Dave Chase wrote: Wait a minute, how could a ring create all those gravities with out being on a MiNbari ship or station?

And how could such a small thing like that particular ring cause such a localized effect without effecting everything else around it.
1) They were probably legally on Minbari territory, what with it being an ambassador's quarters. You think they didn't send in a crew to add some 'fixtures and fittings' :twisted:

2) You're assuming the ring was generating the field rather than operating as a control mechanism for the field generator

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Postby Dave Chase » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:28 am

lastbesthope wrote:
Dave Chase wrote:
Ah, but who says it stayed around after the war. It could have warped out again to ????
JMS himself in the comic "In Valen's Name"
Ah, never read that, darn, wrong again.

So, why didn't the Minbari recongize the Humans when they 'ran' into them?
Valen delete the data?


BTW, any source for buying that comic, or the books.

I had purchased all the B5 stories to read during the winter one year. Someone thought that they needed them (and a few other books) more than me and took the box they were in.

Dave Chase wrote: Wait a minute, how could a ring create all those gravities with out being on a MiNbari ship or station?

And how could such a small thing like that particular ring cause such a localized effect without effecting everything else around it.
lastbesthope wrote:
1) They were probably legally on Minbari territory, what with it being an ambassador's quarters. You think they didn't send in a crew to add some 'fixtures and fittings' :twisted:

2) You're assuming the ring was generating the field rather than operating as a control mechanism for the field generator

LBH
And I would still argue that it would show up on some sensor BUT
They repeatedly said that they had to 'refocus' the sensors to 'see' what is in side the ship.

Something that I use now as a standard for most of my ships. It cost extra to have the same sensor ability to see in the ship (or directly behind the sensor array.

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Postby lastbesthope » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:51 pm

Dave Chase wrote:
lastbesthope wrote:
Dave Chase wrote:
Ah, but who says it stayed around after the war. It could have warped out again to ????
JMS himself in the comic "In Valen's Name"
Ah, never read that, darn, wrong again.

So, why didn't the Minbari recongize the Humans when they 'ran' into them?
Valen delete the data?


BTW, any source for buying that comic, or the books.
Try looking around, it seem's quite expensive on EBay and AMazon. It was a 3 issue comic series, and the graphic novel has the ISBN 1-85286-981-X

Dave Chase wrote: And I would still argue that it would show up on some sensor BUT
They repeatedly said that they had to 'refocus' the sensors to 'see' what is in side the ship.

Something that I use now as a standard for most of my ships. It cost extra to have the same sensor ability to see in the ship (or directly behind the sensor array.

Dave Chase
Yes, because running the scanners through the diplomatic quarters isn't going to cause a diplomatic incident, assuming the EA sensors could even detect the gear. And what if they did, and then they decided to question the Minbari authorities regarding what they discovered during a likely illegal scan of Minbari soveirgn territory.

"Oh that, yes the gravimetric field generator, we use it to ease the environment for visiting diplomats from other grav strength planets"

So you've caused a major diplomatic incident for no reason, I think not :lol:

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Postby Dave Chase » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:40 pm

LBH,
I noticed that you (or that lying Grandfather) did not reply to my question on the reason why the Minbari did not know about Humans before they met the Humans.

AS for the other, thanks. I will look it up.

:D

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Postby Torg Smith » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:28 pm

Dave Chase wrote:LBH,
I noticed that you (or that lying Grandfather) did not reply to my question on the reason why the Minbari did not know about Humans before they met the Humans.

AS for the other, thanks. I will look it up.

:D

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I believe that one show said Sinclair went through the same process that Delyn went through to become Human but he became Minbari.

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Postby alex_greene » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:13 am

The episode was called "War Without End," it was a two parter in the middle of Season 3, and it finally tied up the Sector 14, Babylon 4 and Jeffrey Sinclair / Valen plot threads.

In that episode, Sinclair used that house of cards construct Delenn had built during Season 1 to reverse-engineer his genetic structure. When he emerged from his Chrysalis, his genetic structure was Minbari; a Minbari not born of Minbar.

The predestination paradox was completed in the movie "In The Beginning," when Sinclair's Starfury was picked out of the Line by Delenn herself, thus fulfilling one of Kosh Naranek's cryptic sayings, "The future points to itself."

Sinclair's lineage as Valen was manifest sometimes during the show, in that the crystal house of cards thing required the use of that glass crystal triangle thing with the broken circuit inside it to work.

The glass triangle thing with the circuit glowed faintly in Delenn's presence, causing immense consternation amongst the rest of the Grey Council at the time; and when Sinclair was brought before the Grey Council, that glass thing positively flared up. Because it was in the presence, respectively, of a child of Valen and of Valen himself.

It was a kind of Valen gene detector, I suppose, which explains why only Sinclair and Delenn could have used the house of cards device: it had been built to work on Sinclair and members of his bloodline only.

I have not seen episodes from that old B5 series for damn near ten years, and yet I recall the story as though it were yesterday. :)


...


Oh. One other thing.

During Season 1, Delenn and Sinclair participated in a Minbari ceremony in one episode. They both ate a red berry. Afterwards, Delenn said that participants who ate the red berry would have one of two things happen to them: they were going to change, or they were going to get married.

We never saw Catherine Sakai marry Sinclair. But boy, did he change.

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Postby captainsmirk » Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:54 am

The "triangle thing" is called a triluminary, the Minbari had three of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triluminary

Although thinking about it as one of them is presumably the one Sinclair takes back with him, there are only actually two and two of them are in fact the same one...

:shock:

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