Traveller: Warships of Babylon 5

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Traveller: Warships of Babylon 5

Postby Bygoneyrs » Thu May 21, 2009 7:35 pm

Hello everone,

I got my pre-ordered copy today in the mail and am very happy. Now I have one comment to Mongoose Publishing, and that is I only really want or need floor plans of space ships that are smaller in size. I would say 10,000 tons or less, this way I can use them in adventures or etc. larger ships really will not be used to adventure in by players that often. Just my 2 cents worth there. I still thing you guys are doing a awesome job.

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Postby lastbesthope » Thu May 21, 2009 10:18 pm

THe old d20 RPGs had releases of Deck plans for the Primus, Hyperion and G'Quan.

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Postby tneva82 » Fri May 22, 2009 5:55 am

lastbesthope wrote:THe old d20 RPGs had releases of Deck plans for the Primus, Hyperion and G'Quan.

LBH
I think those are the big ones he wasn't that interested ;-)

Atleast I'm pretty darned sure I have never heard those being refered as small ships :lol:

Though not sure how many small ships from official B5 universum there ARE that would be small ones and aren't in universe of B5. For small ships maybe buy the traders&gunboats book? Should be reasonably easy to modify for B5 from there and plenty of small ships there.
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Postby Gee4orce » Fri May 22, 2009 10:13 am

We had a big long discussion about deck plans after High Guard was released. There's definitely two camps - those who think general schematics would satisfy curiosity, and those who want every deck of every ship detailed.

I'm in the former camp.
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Postby Bygoneyrs » Fri May 22, 2009 1:22 pm

Well to clarify my point of view, i would like to see deck plan details for any ship of 10,000 tons or less. The reason for that, is I feal that players could play through a ship of that size or smaller in any standard adventure. Now having played Traveller since it first cam out, I have never nor do I know of anyone that has ever used deck plans for any ship greater than the 10,000 tons mark.

Just my 2 cents of experience is all...

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Postby Lorcan Nagle » Fri May 22, 2009 1:53 pm

Smaller ships would certianly be useful as players who encounter military vessels (unless they're playing as a ship's crew) would be far more likely to survive a fight with a police cutter or similar ship than a cruiser...

I see the ships of B5 sourcebook as more of a collector's item - a fun selection of fluff rather than a hard-core gaming product. It's a shame that MGT has been curtailed to the three books as a B5-centric version of Traders and gunboats would have been a wonderful book - maybe there should be a fan effort to make something up?
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Postby tneva82 » Fri May 22, 2009 2:10 pm

Lorcan Nagle wrote:Smaller ships would certianly be useful as players who encounter military vessels (unless they're playing as a ship's crew) would be far more likely to survive a fight with a police cutter or similar ship than a cruiser...

I see the ships of B5 sourcebook as more of a collector's item - a fun selection of fluff rather than a hard-core gaming product. It's a shame that MGT has been curtailed to the three books as a B5-centric version of Traders and gunboats would have been a wonderful book - maybe there should be a fan effort to make something up?
Is there something inheritently flawed with traders&gunboats version? Well okay you have to get rid of jump engines where not applicable(ie most if not all) but minor tinkering.

Since there weren't that many small ships in the show that AREN'T covered there's no real official look that is not there.
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Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Fri May 22, 2009 2:18 pm

Bygoneyrs wrote:Well to clarify my point of view, i would like to see deck plan details for any ship of 10,000 tons or less. The reason for that, is I feal that players could play through a ship of that size or smaller in any standard adventure. Now having played Traveller since it first cam out, I have never nor do I know of anyone that has ever used deck plans for any ship greater than the 10,000 tons mark.

Just my 2 cents of experience is all...

Penn
My group played several games on the Azhanti High Lightening using the deck plans provided with that game.

BUT, having said that, I would argue that you probably don't need full deckplans for any ship over 2000 tons. Running gun battles aboard the Imperial Star Destroyer are all well and good, but a few generic deck plans (ala AHL) would work in place of complete plans for the entire Tigress.
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Postby Lorcan Nagle » Fri May 22, 2009 2:20 pm

tneva82 wrote:
Lorcan Nagle wrote:Smaller ships would certianly be useful as players who encounter military vessels (unless they're playing as a ship's crew) would be far more likely to survive a fight with a police cutter or similar ship than a cruiser...

I see the ships of B5 sourcebook as more of a collector's item - a fun selection of fluff rather than a hard-core gaming product. It's a shame that MGT has been curtailed to the three books as a B5-centric version of Traders and gunboats would have been a wonderful book - maybe there should be a fan effort to make something up?
Is there something inheritently flawed with traders&gunboats version? Well okay you have to get rid of jump engines where not applicable(ie most if not all) but minor tinkering.

Since there weren't that many small ships in the show that AREN'T covered there's no real official look that is not there.
Dude, reread my post - I said a B5 book similar to Traders and Gunboats....
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Postby tneva82 » Fri May 22, 2009 2:25 pm

Lorcan Nagle wrote:Dude, reread my post - I said a B5 book similar to Traders and Gunboats....
So what's wrong with traders&gunboats which requires new book? Why not use traders&gunboats instead?

Would be pretty much same book except jump engines would be removed and artificial gravity added instead.
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Postby Lorcan Nagle » Fri May 22, 2009 2:36 pm

because two of the four major races and plenty of the minor ones still use reaction drives, which requires insane amounts of fuel under High Guard rules?
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Postby tneva82 » Fri May 22, 2009 2:55 pm

Lorcan Nagle wrote:because two of the four major races and plenty of the minor ones still use reaction drives, which requires insane amounts of fuel under High Guard rules?
Doesn't B5 Traveller use high guard rules anyway?

This chapter details a selection of ships of the Babylon 5
universe, described using the ship rules from the basic Traveller
Core Rulebook and the extended options offered in High
Guard.

So new book wouldn't change that since rules used would be same.

So again it would be pretty much current traders&gunboats with jump engines removed and artificial gravity method added in. Minor tweaks anybody can do anyway.
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Postby Lorcan Nagle » Fri May 22, 2009 3:04 pm

tneva82 wrote:
Lorcan Nagle wrote:because two of the four major races and plenty of the minor ones still use reaction drives, which requires insane amounts of fuel under High Guard rules?
Doesn't B5 Traveller use high guard rules anyway?

This chapter details a selection of ships of the Babylon 5
universe, described using the ship rules from the basic Traveller
Core Rulebook and the extended options offered in High
Guard.

So new book wouldn't change that since rules used would be same.
that's my point - under high guard rules, reaction drives - the engines used by the EA, Narn, and plenty of the minor races require shedloads of fuel to be effective. Look at how much of the olympus in universe of B5 is dedicated to fuel - every Human and Narn ship would be the same. You can't assume the space saved by removing the jump drive will equate to the space needed for fuel.
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Postby tneva82 » Fri May 22, 2009 3:16 pm

Lorcan Nagle wrote:that's my point - under high guard rules, reaction drives - the engines used by the EA, Narn, and plenty of the minor races require shedloads of fuel to be effective. Look at how much of the olympus in universe of B5 is dedicated to fuel - every Human and Narn ship would be the same. You can't assume the space saved by removing the jump drive will equate to the space needed for fuel.
So you have to do bit of a tweaking. Whopedoo. I doubt they would release 2 nearly identical books with same ships with slightly altered rules. Maybe in 5+ years if they would have held the lisence but meanwhile they would be producing new stuff. The traders&gunboats will be base line I will be taking small ships I need. Little work isn't too much of a trouble.
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Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Fri May 22, 2009 4:22 pm

If you look at the designs closely, I think you will find the less tweaking will be needed than you think.

Traveller Jump fuel is a BIG part of the ship. Trading Jump Fuel for Reaction Fuel makes a very easy change over and the space for the Jump Drive gives you a bit more if you need it.

Just about everything else can stay the same.
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Postby lastbesthope » Sat May 23, 2009 7:26 pm

Ordered mine from my FLGS today, hope it comes in quicker than P&P did, hopefully they'll get Psion for me as well.

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Postby pasuuli » Sun May 24, 2009 12:54 pm

So, I want to hear something like "this book stays true to Babylon 5". Hardcore B5 people, tell me your thoughts.
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Postby SM » Sun May 24, 2009 3:21 pm

I would welcome comments as well. From my involvement in the designs I was trying to keep the designs internally consistent with the Traveller: B5 book and ACTA 2nd edition, whilst keeping in the spirit of the show.
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Postby pasuuli » Mon May 25, 2009 10:34 pm

Lorcan Nagle wrote:Smaller ships would certianly be useful as players who encounter military vessels (unless they're playing as a ship's crew) would be far more likely to survive a fight with a police cutter or similar ship than a cruiser...

[...] a B5-centric version of Traders and gunboats would have been a wonderful book - maybe there should be a fan effort to make something up?
I think this is a fun idea. We can take the smaller ships that are used in Babylon 5 and convert them into Mongoose Traveller B5 stats. I like that.
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Postby Lorcan Nagle » Mon May 25, 2009 11:47 pm

Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:If you look at the designs closely, I think you will find the less tweaking will be needed than you think.

Traveller Jump fuel is a BIG part of the ship. Trading Jump Fuel for Reaction Fuel makes a very easy change over and the space for the Jump Drive gives you a bit more if you need it.

Just about everything else can stay the same.
I ran some numbers earlier on, the following table shows how many hours of fuel operation the main civillian ships from the core Traveller Rule book and Traders and Gunboats get if you remove their jump drive and convert the freed space to reaction mass. Thrust is in G, duration is in hours.


type Type S scout
tonnage 100
thrust 2
duration 8.8
fuel % 0.44
fuel tonnage 44


type Free Trader
tonnage 200
thrust 1
duration 6.4
fuel % 0.16
fuel tonnage 32

type Far Trader
tonnage 200
thrust 1
duration 10.8
fuel % 0.27
fuel tonnage 54

type Fat Trader
tonnage 400
thrust 1
duration 7.2
fuel % 0.18
fuel tonnage 72

type Heavy Freighter
tonnage 1000
thrust 1
duration 10.44
fuel % 0.261
fuel tonnage 261

type Fast Trader
tonnage 200
thrust 4
duration 3.15
fuel % 0.315
fuel tonnage 63

type Large Trader
tonnage 2000
thrust 1
duration 14.34
fuel % 0.3585
fuel tonnage 717

To put those flight durations into context, it would take 4 hours to get from Earth to the Moon at a constant 1G acceleration for 2 hours, turnover and a 1G deceleration for 2 hours. All the ships can handle that, most at least twice over. But it'd take 1.45 days to get from Earth to Venus, or 6.4 days to get to Jupiter - the site of the only jump gate in the Sol system, and well outside the endurance of any of these ships - or indeed the Olympus Corvette as depicted in Universe of B5! In fact, A ship would need to somehow carry 384% of its' own mass in fuel to make the trip at 1G...

I'll post more on this later, but for now, bed calls.
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