Will you buy Mongoose Traveller when released?

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings

Will you buy Mongoose Traveller when released?

Yes. It looks great. I can't wait.
75
69%
No. I am no longer interested in buying the game.
34
31%
 
Total votes: 109
Klaus Kipling
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Postby Klaus Kipling » Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:35 am

ParanoidGamer wrote:I'm glad they are revising the combat system. I honestly think that if a task is horribly difficult to do at all then you shouldn't be able to get some kind of humongous success in doing it. Easier tasks, yes a huge success makes sense but not on something that is horribly difficult.
But that's exactly how effect worked, especially uncapped. Negative mods, ie, a difficult task, mean you have to have a very high skill to get the better success. A really hard task makes it impossible to achieve the best success, even in the semi-broken uncapped version.

It was a high timing causing the perceived problem. Timing's gone, now.
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Postby GamerDude » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:56 am

Klaus Kipling wrote:It was a high timing causing the perceived problem. Timing's gone, now.
Cool. Is there a new playtest doc for this?
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Postby Klaus Kipling » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:06 pm

Nope, they're keeping the final draft under their hats. Probably a good idea, given the vociferously personal flak aimed at the designers.
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Postby Supplement Four » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:56 pm

Klaus Kipling wrote:Nope, they're keeping the final draft under their hats. Probably a good idea, given the vociferously personal flak aimed at the designers.
They might be keeping it under their hats so that people will have to buy it to see it. But, I disagree it's a good idea. Had MGT come out as was presented in the playtest we saw, it's better to have the dissatisfied air thier concerns before acutal publication rather than after. It can still be fixed if its "before". If its "after", MGT might be more likely to pick up a Traveller version name as "crap".

I don't think they're going to meet one of their design goals, though--that of being the definitive version of Traveller that brings the Traveller community back to one edition (as stated in the press release). I think MGT is going to be "just another version of Traveller" with some who like and play it. I bet the huge CT audience will stick with CT.
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Postby JimG » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:34 pm

Supplement Four wrote:I don't think they're going to meet one of their design goals, though--that of being the definitive version of Traveller that brings the Traveller community back to one edition (as stated in the press release).
Given the heated arguments I've seen here and on CotI the few times I've peeked over there, I doubt that this would be possible for any publisher/author.
Supplement Four wrote:I think MGT is going to be "just another version of Traveller" with some who like and play it. I bet the huge CT audience will stick with CT.
I think you are right. For anyone who has invested 20-30 years in a gaming system, I don't see how anything new is going to make them jump. At this point, anyone still playing CT has not only passed over all of the subsequent versions, they've also tweaked the rules to the point where they fit their needs and style precisely.

I played CT briefly 20+ years ago. If I had kept with it I'm sure that MGT wouldn't appeal to me. When I bought the CT CDs from Far Future last year and started looking at what it would take to make them fit my needs, the task seemed overwhelming. But, from what I've seen, MGT will take a lot less work for me to get up and running with, so for me it's a good investment.
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Postby Supplement Four » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:52 pm

JimG wrote:For anyone who has invested 20-30 years in a gaming system, I don't see how anything new is going to make them jump. At this point, anyone still playing CT has not only passed over all of the subsequent versions, they've also tweaked the rules to the point where they fit their needs and style precisely.
FWIW, I use CT straight out of the box. No house rules.
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Postby EDG » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:17 am

Supplement Four wrote:FWIW, I use CT straight out of the box. No house rules.
Given that you've often claimed to have come up with "teh most awesome task system evar!" in your UGM, I find it a little hard to believe that you use CT "straight out of the box" or haven't tweaked it or used any house rules.
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Postby captainjack23 » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:43 am

EDG wrote:
Supplement Four wrote:FWIW, I use CT straight out of the box. No house rules.
Given that you've often claimed to have come up with "teh most awesome task system evar!" in your UGM, I find it a little hard to believe that you use CT "straight out of the box" or haven't tweaked it or used any house rules.
Are you just unhappy if you're not arguing with someone ? :wink:
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Postby EDG » Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:00 am

No, just bemused by someone claiming to play CT unmodified out of the box when he makes such a big deal out of coming up with what he thinks is the best task system ever for Traveller (and don't forget he was also claiming at one point that Mongoose copied his ideas too).

I just don't get why he'd make all those house rules if he's happy enough to play CT completely unmodified.
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Postby AKAramis » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:16 am

captainjack23 wrote:
EDG wrote:
Supplement Four wrote:FWIW, I use CT straight out of the box. No house rules.
Given that you've often claimed to have come up with "teh most awesome task system evar!" in your UGM, I find it a little hard to believe that you use CT "straight out of the box" or haven't tweaked it or used any house rules.
Are you just unhappy if you're not arguing with someone ? :wink:
Me, I find WJP/S4's claims to run pure CT to be at odds with his constant tinkering as well.

EDG tends to call 'em like he sees 'em...

EDG, S4, and I all tend to be a bit brusque... and tend to escalate each other... and, in my case at least, it isn't actually intentional.

S4 made a claim which appears, on the face of his recent complaints, to be false. (He's a notorious tinkerer. Some good ideas in his tinkering, too...) I wasn't going to call him on it, but given his track record, yeah, it beggars the imagination how "Mr House Rule" could run "straight" CT, since CT includes contradictions... unless you use JUST books 1-3... ;) ... I suppose a subset counts as "straight"... but you still have to houserule WHICH subset....
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Postby EDG » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:01 am

Yeah, this is like me complaining all the time about CT's worldgen and then going off and make my own system to fix the problems and going on about how great that is (which, let's face it, I do anyway) - but then saying I still use unmodified CT worldgen all the time (which I don't do, because that would run totally contrary to what I've done elsewhere).

See, it really does not compute.
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Postby Supplement Four » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:15 am

I do tinker a lot. I have house-ruled a lot in the past. The UGM is a fantastic CT task system that is remarkably familiar in what MGT is using (and I believe it is superior to MGT's system).

But, I am no longer using the UGM in my own game (Rule 68A works remarkably well). As I said, I'm running CT without house rules. I'm running it as-written.

Well, that's not completely true. I do use two small tweaks, but they're so small its ridiculous to say I'm running a heavily house-ruled game.

For EDG and AKAramis (persnickety as they can be), the first tweak I'm using is running instantaneous combat (instead of CT's simultaneous combat) using Book 4's Morale check as Initiative. So, that's using one CT rule where another didn't exist before. You might call that a tweak. You might not.

Second, I'm still using the Stun rule I created a while back, providing a possible "Stun" in between wounded and unconscious.

That's it, though. Just initiative and the possible stun. The rest of CT, if you read it in the book, I'm running it that way. Combat is exactly as written in LBB1, using charts and all. Space Combat is as written in Starter Traveller. I allow the extended combat rules in Book 4 too (rapid fire, extreme range, etc).

I'm running the most un-modded CT game you've ever seen.



EDIT: BTW, Aramis and EDG...I don't really care what you believe. Matters little to me. What would be my motivation in lying, though?
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Postby EDG » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:32 am

Supplement Four wrote:The UGM is a fantastic CT task system that is remarkably familiar in what MGT is using (and I believe it is superior to MGT's system).
He's also stunningly modest, in case anyone hadn't noticed.

I'm still scratching my head over why you would go to all the bother of redesigning a system (presumably to fix issues that you perceived in the game) and also go on at length about how great you think it is and how everyone else should use it... and then just not use it in your own games.
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Postby sjmiller » Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:56 pm

I would love to purchase a new edition of Traveller. I've even bouth editions I was not to crazy about (except for the d20 version). However, recent changes in my employment status have forced me to say I will not be purchasing it in the near future.
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Postby Supplement Four » Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:50 pm

EDG wrote:He's also stunningly modest, in case anyone hadn't noticed.
I wasn't boasting. The UGM is superior in several ways. It can duplicate any roll excatly from CT publications. Critical Success is easier to acheive the easier the task and the higher skilled the character. Critical Failure is harder to avoid the harder the task and the lower skilled the character. The UGM can duplicate (mathmatically) throws in MT supplements (making it extremely compatible with all the CT and MT publications out there). The T/E mechanic is not a part of the UGM. And, there is no stat bloat using the UGM. Etc.

All of these are things that the MGT system can't claim. For those reasons, and more, I claim the UGM is a superior task system.





I'm still scratching my head over why you would go to all the bother of redesigning a system (presumably to fix issues that you perceived in the game) and also go on at length about how great you think it is and how everyone else should use it... and then just not use it in your own games.
I've designed several task systems for Traveller. The UGM isn't the first one. (It is the best one for use with CT, though).

I believe in CT's non-structured task system, though. I'm a convert. So many people believe that CT "needs a task system", and the UGM provides that for them.

As for me, I don't believe (any longer) that CT's task system needs to be changed. A good, competent, creative GM is all that CT needs in order to enforce the sturctureless task system.

That's what I use in my game. I make up a roll on the spot (typically using Rule 68A, but not always) that I think is appropriate to the situation, and we roll with it (pardon the pun).




Say...EDG. What's the deal with you, anyway? Have you got a hard-on for me or something? You seem to be replying to my posts in a baiting style, hoping that I'll get into a flame fest with you.

Is that what you want? Is that what you're gunning for?
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Postby EDG » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:04 pm

Supplement Four wrote:Say...EDG. What's the deal with you, anyway? Have you got a hard-on for me or something? You seem to be replying to my posts in a baiting style, hoping that I'll get into a flame fest with you.

Is that what you want? Is that what you're gunning for?
An answer to my question, which you've now given me.

I'm really getting sick of this game's community. It seems that I can't ask simple questions without being accused of starting fights or without people insulting me or blaming me for all the strife on discussion boards. And of course everyone else is perfectly saintly and not to blame for anything. It's freaking ridiculous.

I give up. Good luck with Traveller, Mongoose. You're going to need it.
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Postby Supplement Four » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:40 pm

EDG wrote:It seems that I can't ask simple questions without being accused of starting fights or without people insulting me or blaming me for all the strife on discussion boards.
It's your tone. You don't seem too inclined to "play nice".

Look at your previous posts to me. They're far from friendly, and they're not encouraging me to be friendly towards you.

Take a look at your own words in this post:
I'm really getting sick of this game's community.

(snip)

It's freaking ridiculous.

(snip)

I give up. Good luck with Traveller, Mongoose. You're going to need it.
Now, I'm not a MGT fan either, so this isn't coming from that "place". But, if your desire is to command respect, you might consider starting with an effort of your own to respect others.

People won't look at your comments as worthy of their respect if most of what you post has the tone of your last several posts in this thread.
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Postby captainjack23 » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:03 pm

EDG wrote: I'm really getting sick of this game's community. It seems that I can't ask simple questions without being accused of starting fights or without people insulting me or blaming me for all the strife on discussion boards. And of course everyone else is perfectly saintly and not to blame for anything. It's freaking ridiculous.

I give up. Good luck with Traveller, Mongoose. You're going to need it.
Does this mean that you're actually quitting the forum ?
...Or just the thread ?
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Postby EDG » Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:02 pm

Supplement Four wrote:Look at your previous posts to me. They're far from friendly, and they're not encouraging me to be friendly towards you.
You're hardly a saint in that regard either, you've been very pushy and obnoxious in a lot of your posts both here and on CotI. Other people have commented on that too.

But, if your desire is to command respect, you might consider starting with an effort of your own to respect others.
I don't expect or demand respect from anyone, but I do expect to be able to ask people questions without being accused of being confrontational all the damn time. And I'm sick of people making it a personal thing with me all the time and thinking they have some god-given right to lecture me about things that are none of their business and questioning my motives and insulting my intelligence when it's nothing to do with the conversation at hand. Just answer the questions and address the points and leave it at that, is it so damn hard?

I found it surprising that you'd claim to use untouched CT as a system given your history of going on about your house rules. That's all. I asked why you'd say that and you answered it, and that's that. If I comment about your "modesty" as well, that's because you're always going on about how supposedly "fantastic" they are - which you've done again here. Is that confrontational? Maybe, but that's what you're saying and how it comes across, and I'm sorry if you don't like that. Rather than lecture me about pointing that out, maybe you should look to your own words and ratchet down your pushiness.

So no, I'm not "starting fights" - hell, I asked ParanoidGamer a simple question the other day and he decided to hurl insults at me over three threads because he couldn't be bothered to be civilised and just go look the damn thing up. I'm just trying to ask questions and take part in discussions like anyone else, but the same minority of people keep wanting to shout me down, lecture or patronise me, and attack me all the time and apparently I'm expected to just sit there and take it because if I react to it then I get accused of being "aggressive" or "confrontational". Hell, I responded quite reasonably to an obviously pointed comment earlier on today on the "Rings around Rhea" thread and was given a bloody lecture by someone who had nothing to do with it about how confrontational I was despite the fact that I wasn't the one making the snarky comment in the first place.

So given that environment, yeah, I've had enough and I don't see why I should waste any more of my time here.
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Postby captainjack23 » Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:48 pm

EDG wrote:<snip>Hell, I responded quite reasonably to an obviously pointed comment earlier on today on the "Rings around Rhea" thread and was given a bloody lecture by someone who had nothing to do with it about how confrontational I was despite the fact that I wasn't the one making the snarky comment in the first place.

So given that environment, yeah, I've had enough and I don't see why I should waste any more of my time here.
Well, if you've gotten to the point where you can't shrug off what you see as snarky comments from asshats, perhaps that's the right choice.

From what I see, yes, there is baiting going on....and you are biting HARD. Which just amuses the fishermen, so to speak.
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