Gaining Levels in a skill..

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
User avatar
GamerDude
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1651
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:36 am
Location: Amarillo, TX

Gaining Levels in a skill..

Postby GamerDude » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:50 pm

I am using the 2022 update of the CRB.

When a skill has no specialties the CRB rules are clear on how to handle a character gaining skills during their terms of service, and after finally mustering out through training. But, all the examples are for skills that lack specializations, like Vacc Suit.

Two questions.
First: A Traveller has no level in a skill with specializations (say, Science). They then during a term they get a level in Science (this could be just listed as "Science" or "Science 1"). The rules require that the level is put into one of the specialties (not a problem). For discussion sake lets say they take "Science (Economics) 1". Would they then also have "Science 0" or continue with no levels in Science beyond the one level in the one in economics)?

Second: A Traveller "Science (Economics) 1". They then during a term they get a level in Science ( listed as "Science 1"). Since the Traveller already has a level in Science, can they take a first level in another Science specialty, say "Science (Physics) 1" or do they just loose the level?
Pg 18
SKILLS AND TRAINING
Each career has four or five types of skill table associated with it - Personal Development, Service Skills, Assignment Skills (divided into three sub-tables corresponding to assignments), Officer and Advanced Education. In each term you spend in a career, pick one of these tables and roll 1D to see which skill you increase. You may only roll on the Advanced Education or Commissioned tables if you have the listed requirement (usually EDU 8 or higher, or a certain rank).

Skills can be listed with or without an associated level. If no specific level is listed, then you gain that skill at level 1 if you do not have it already, or increase its level by +1 if you are already trained in that field. If a level is listed, then you gain the skill at that level so long as it is higher than your current level in the skill. For example, Gambler 0 would mean you receive the Gambler skill at level 0. This is of benefit to you only if you have no Gambler skill.

Vacc Suit would mean you increase your Vacc Suit skill by +1 or gain it at level 1 if you have no Vacc Suit skill to begin with. If you have Vacc Suit 0, it increases to 1, if you have Vacc Suit 2 it rises to 3 and so forth. Streetwise 1 would mean you get the Streetwise skill at level 1. If your Streetwise skill is already 1 or more, then this is of no benefit to you. If you have no Streetwise skill, or it is only at 0, you jump straight to Streetwise 1.

pg 58
SPECIALTIES
Some skills have specialties - specialized, more focused forms of that skill. A Traveller picks a specialty when they gain level 1 in a skill that has two or more specialties.

For example, a Traveller might have Engineer 0, allowing them to make Engineer skill checks without the unskilled penalty. They might then gain a level in Engineer, at which point they would need to choose a specialty. For Engineer, this is a choice between j-drive, m-drive, power plant and life support.

If they choose j-drive, they would record this on their character sheet as Engineer (j-drive) 1. They would then make all Engineer checks involving jump drives at DM+1 but would still make all other Engineer checks at DM+0 (in other words, with no penalty). A Traveller can have multiple specialties in a skill - they might have Engineer (j-drive) 1 and Engineer (power plant) 2. They would therefore make checks related to jump drives with DM+1, checks related to power plants with DM+2 and all other Engineer checks with DM+0.
Al B. [B-)USAF (Retired)
International GameMaster
Professional Game Demonstrator since 1998

Ranger Sgt Major Al Beddow, Deputy Commandant for Ranger Operations, Star Fleet Rangers
Author: Traveller Prime Directive
User avatar
adzling
Mongoose
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:52 pm

Re: Gaining Levels in a skill..

Postby adzling » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:24 pm

GamerDude wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:50 pm

Two questions.
First: A Traveller has no level in a skill with specializations (say, Science). They then during a term they get a level in Science (this could be just listed as "Science" or "Science 1"). The rules require that the level is put into one of the specialties (not a problem). For discussion sake lets say they take "Science (Economics) 1". Would they then also have "Science 0" or continue with no levels in Science beyond the one level in the one in economics)?

Second: A Traveller "Science (Economics) 1". They then during a term they get a level in Science ( listed as "Science 1"). Since the Traveller already has a level in Science, can they take a first level in another Science specialty, say "Science (Physics) 1" or do they just loose the level?
1). YES you would also get Science 0.

2). YES you would take any science specialization at 1 OR increase any existing science specialization by 1.
User avatar
NOLATrav
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:42 pm
Location: Crescent City

Re: Gaining Levels in a skill..

Postby NOLATrav » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:25 pm

1. Yes, the Traveller would put the level 1 into a specific Science, in this case economics. Ostensibly the Traveller then has Science 0 in everything else. Personally I prefer the 1e paradigm of groups of Sciences (Life, Social, Space and Physical) and keep the level 0 limited to the group chosen. In the case of economics, that would be Social Sciences, which also includes archeology, history, linguistics, philosophy, psychology and sophontology. YMMV.

2. If a skill gain is listed as Science 1 in the table, you couldn’t increase Science (economics) 1 because the Traveller already has it at level 1. You could however take a level 1 in another Science of your choice.
User avatar
GamerDude
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1651
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:36 am
Location: Amarillo, TX

Re: Gaining Levels in a skill..

Postby GamerDude » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:05 am

Thank you for the input.
NOLATrav wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:25 pm
1. Yes, the Traveller would put the level 1 into a specific Science, in this case economics. Ostensibly the Traveller then has Science 0 in everything else. Personally I prefer the 1e paradigm of groups of Sciences (Life, Social, Space and Physical) and keep the level 0 limited to the group chosen. In the case of economics, that would be Social Sciences, which also includes archeology, history, linguistics, philosophy, psychology and sophontology. YMMV
I agree with you, preferring that science be broken down into those 1e groupings.
Al B. [B-)USAF (Retired)
International GameMaster
Professional Game Demonstrator since 1998

Ranger Sgt Major Al Beddow, Deputy Commandant for Ranger Operations, Star Fleet Rangers
Author: Traveller Prime Directive
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10129
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Gaining Levels in a skill..

Postby Condottiere » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:42 am

Three millenia into the future, we'll know a lot more more about each of the sciences, so specializing into one should be a lot more invasive then, than it is now, and specialization currently is time consuming.
User avatar
NOLATrav
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:42 pm
Location: Crescent City

Re: Gaining Levels in a skill..

Postby NOLATrav » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:11 pm

I just want to avoid the homogenization of Scholar / Scientist characters. One PC who specializes in Life Sciences will have opportunities different to one who specializes in Space Sciences. They'll each have moments to shine and different hooks.

Besides, a lot of these types will likely have a high INT or EDU DM to help offset the lack of 0 level skills. And possibly a Library or database to provide research DMs as well.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10129
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Gaining Levels in a skill..

Postby Condottiere » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:03 pm

You could make the Education characteristic more dynamic.

Every time it goes up you gain an academic skill.
Garran
Mongoose
Posts: 181
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:25 pm

Re: Gaining Levels in a skill..

Postby Garran » Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:33 pm

Most of the skills are compressed for the sake of gameplay utility. If we were being "accurate" about it then Admin would have innumerable specialties (Denebian Corporate Accounting, Ahroya'if Medical Record-Keeping, I.N. Paperclip Distribution, etc) that don't have much else to do with one another, and those would be in Admin subtypes that also don't rank-0 one another. We don't because we want Admin to be a plausibly-useful skill.

I feel that the consolidation of Science is in the same vein. Sure, we could split it up into all kinds of science types and specialties within each, but that greatly reduces the utility of it for one character, especially if the thing that you're afraid of is "rank 0".
User avatar
NOLATrav
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:42 pm
Location: Crescent City

Re: Gaining Levels in a skill..

Postby NOLATrav » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:40 am

Or maybe the EDU DM works like Jack of all Trades, reducing the unskilled penalty.
User avatar
GamerDude
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1651
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:36 am
Location: Amarillo, TX

Re: Gaining Levels in a skill..

Postby GamerDude » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:48 pm

I asked this question as I was working on the Skills & Tasks chapter of the Traveller Prime Directive (TPD) core rule book. I realized all examples on training/increasing skills only used ones that had no specialties. Knowing how gamers can argue over RAW, this struck me as a nice hole for some players to take a deep dive into.
NOLATrav wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:11 pm
I just want to avoid the homogenization of Scholar / Scientist characters. One PC who specializes in Life Sciences will have opportunities different to one who specializes in Space Sciences. They'll each have moments to shine and different hooks...
I agree here. I prefer how the sciences are grouped in MGT1. We have to remember though that, as it seems to me, that MGT2 is to MGT1 as D&D 5th ed is to DND 3rd ed - Trimmed down and 'simplified'. (not that isnecessarily a bad thing)
Garran wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:33 pm
Most of the skills are compressed for the sake of gameplay utility. If we were being "accurate" about it then Admin would have innumerable specialties (Denebian Corporate Accounting, Ahroya'if Medical Record-Keeping, I.N. Paperclip Distribution, etc) that don't have much else to do with one another, and those would be in Admin subtypes that also don't rank-0 one another. We don't because we want Admin to be a plausibly-useful skill.

I feel that the consolidation of Science is in the same vein. Sure, we could split it up into all kinds of science types and specialties within each, but that greatly reduces the utility of it for one character, especially if the thing that you're afraid of is "rank 0".
Yes, in every RPG system there is a necessary balance between "realistic" and "playable. I find the some systems like ICE from ICW to be very "realistic" but for me highly unplayable. All depends on what one is looking for in a game system.

Here is the skills I've worked up for TPD. For some of the skills we just clarified use of the skill with example tasks:
SKILLS WITH “EMPIRE”
Some skill specialties have a designation of “empire”, Ex: Advocate Civil (Empire). IndicaAtes that this specialty has enough variation between empires that each requires its own separate training. When you receive the very first level in a skill identified this way, the specialty you pick is automatically for your home empire. All additional levels received in that skill may be applied for any empire even if you don’t have a Level 1 in the skill for your home empire.

For example, Eric is from the Federation and has Advocate 0. He receives his first level of Advocate and chooses Advocate (Trade). This automatically becomes Advocate (Trade/Federation). When Eric receives a second level of Advocate, he chooses Advocate (Military), which can now be for any empire he chooses. In this case he chooses Advocate (Military/Klingon)

There is a DM-1 applied to any skill check for an empire other than your own – unless you have at least one level for that specific empire. This does not stack with the DM-3 for being untrained in a skill.

For example, Eric has Advocate 0 and is from the Romulan Empire. He does not suffer the DM-3 for being untrained in the skill. He needs to mediate a matter involving Federation Trade Law. Eric would suffer the DM-1 for the type of law not being for his own empire. If Erick had Advocate (Trade/Romulan) 1 he would still suffer the DM-1 for Federation Trade Law. IF Eric had Advocate Trade (Federation) then the DM-1 would not apply no matter what his skill level was with Advocate Trade (Romulan) was.

EMPIRES:
Unless otherwise stated, the list of applicable Empires is:
Federation
Klingon
Romulan
Kzinti
Gorn
Tholian
Hydran
Andromedan
Lyran
WYN Cluster
Inter-Stellar Concordium (ISC)
Seltorian
Jindarian
Vudar
Carnivon
Paravian
Note: Orians are added to this list for technological skills such as Gunner, Engineer.

SKILL LIST:
Admin
Advocate
- Civil (Empire)
- Military (Empire)
- Trade (Empire)
Animals
- Handling
- Veterinary
- Training
Art
- (SAME AS MGT2)
Astrogation
Athletics
- (SAME AS MGT2)
Broker
Carouse
Diplomat
Drive
- (SAME AS MGT2)
Electronics
- (SAME AS MGT2)
Engineer
- Impulse Drive (Empire)
- Life Support
- Power
- Warp Drive (Empire)
Espionage
Explosives
Flyer
- (SAME AS MGT2)
Gambler
Gunner
- Beams (Empire)
- Missiles (Empire)
- Ortillery (Empire)
Gun Combat
- Archaic
- Energy
- Slug
Heavy Weapons
- Artillery
- Portable
- Vehicle
History
- BY EMPIRE (see above)
Investigate
Jack-of-all-Trades
Language
- At least BY EMPIRE (see above)
Leadership
Mechanic
Medic
Melee
- (SAME AS MGT2)
Navigation
Persuade
Pilot
- (SAME AS MGT2)
Profession
- (SAME AS MGT2)
Recon
Science
- Astronomy
- Biology
- Chemistry
- Cosmology
- Economics
- Genetics
- Linguistics
- Mathematics
- Philosophy
- Physics
- Planetology
- Psionicology
- Psycology
- Robotics
- Sophontology
- Xenology
Seafarer
- (SAME AS MGT2)
Stealth
Steward
Streetwise
Survival
Tactics
- (SAME AS MGT2)
Vacc Suit
Al B. [B-)USAF (Retired)
International GameMaster
Professional Game Demonstrator since 1998

Ranger Sgt Major Al Beddow, Deputy Commandant for Ranger Operations, Star Fleet Rangers
Author: Traveller Prime Directive

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests