Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby TrippyHippy » Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:32 am

May I enquire a bit more about the proposed Prime Directive for Traveller book?

Is it potentially slated for some time soon? How is it going to be supported? What sort of thing should we be looking forward to?

Also, what about doing a Traveller version of Gamma World?
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby MongooseMatt » Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:42 am

TrippyHippy wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:32 am
May I enquire a bit more about the proposed Prime Directive for Traveller book?

Is it potentially slated for some time soon? How is it going to be supported? What sort of thing should we be looking forward to?
I am afraid we do not really know at this stage.
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby MonkeyX » Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:42 am

Something along the lines of the 1st Ed Ad&D wilderness survival guide. Different environments, random weather generators, other Encounters, npcs antagonists at different tech levels, animals and flora etc
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby MonkeyX » Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:43 am

JNJ wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:12 pm
An equivalent to the "Merchant Princes" from the Mongoose 1st edition would be great.

Trade can be an important part of a campaign and deserves to be more detailed than in the Core rule book.
Oh one of my players would LOVE this, if you’re reading this you know who you are. :)
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby agentwigggles » Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:27 am

A few of the conversations I've had with folks about investing into a VTT is they don't like having to rebuy all the books for it. And there is an apprehension that buying into a VTT is just buying a PDF version of the books. Or having to buy a separate book for outside of VTT reference and use.
I don't suppose its possible or economically worthwhile to include the PDFs for Fantasy Grounds purchases, and other VTT purchases when and if that happens.
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby TrippyHippy » Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:33 pm

On the topic of alternative settings, I think it would be nice to have a few more - especially if the occupy niches just outside the traditional range of series provided by Charted Space. On the one hand, I do like the fact that Mongoose Traveller 2nd Edition has put a major focus on the Third Imperium this time round, because it has really explored the variety and versatility found within that single setting. However, I think having a few quality alternative settings just provides a good outlet for fans that, over time, might get a bit jaded.

I think I am starting to look forward to a Traveller: Prime Directive game, even though I’m not especially a Star Trek fan. Star Fleet Battles has been around almost as long as Traveller has and, while I never understood the legal basis of the IP (vs Paramount’s official Star Trek), I actually think there would still be a big fan base that would prefer having a simple 2D6 based system over the more ’narrative’ 2D20 system used in the official Star Trek game. I think it would be a great addition.

The other setting that was mentioned, which I wouldn’t give up hope for, is Frank Chadwick’s Space:1889. I do recognize that the IP is currently owned by Ulisses Spiele USA, but they have allowed for Savage Worlds supplements previously - so maybe something could be worked out. I think it would be a perfect alternative setting for Traveller, frankly - as good a fit as 2300AD in many respects - with a massive richness in what could be done with the existing setting, but also supported by a fantastic range of steampunk and classic literature (Jules Verne, H.G Wells, Edgar Rice Burrows, etc). I could envision a kickstarted campaign to create a box set, with maps and all sorts added - and I would definitely buy it.

The other options I like could just be handled with good supplements in my view - Time Traveller, Virtual Traveller and Traveller: Mutants (which could incorporate super powers) - although getting a big license like The Matrix would certainly be eye catching for a lot of people I think.
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby AndrewW » Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:48 pm

TrippyHippy wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:33 pm
The other options I like could just be handled with good supplements in my view - Time Traveller, Virtual Traveller and Traveller: Mutants (which could incorporate super powers) - although getting a big license like The Matrix would certainly be eye catching for a lot of people I think.
First edition had Strontium Dog and Judge Dredd.
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby TrippyHippy » Sun Nov 07, 2021 3:17 am

AndrewW wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:48 pm
First edition had Strontium Dog and Judge Dredd.
Which I still have! However, the 2000AD license is long gone, and I’m more thinking about Traveller 2nd edition now.

In the case of Judge Dredd, it was pretty good with a great presentation and I liked the way it adapted Traveller rules for character generation. The single problem we found was that playing a Judge wasn’t quite the same game as Traveling the cosmos. It had a few too many redundant skills for spacers, and character progression wasn’t tethered to the notion of accumulating Credits in the same way. Strontium Dog actually worked a little better than Judge Dredd in the context that the characters were travellers of a sort (bounty hunters), and it did have tables for mutant powers - which could be adapted for a more generic book, I think.

Even though The Matrix is also a different sort of sci-fi to a classic Traveller game, there is still ‘traveling’ of a sort - through the myriad potential realms of virtual reality and also in that vessel they had in the scorched Earth reality. I think it could be made to work within Traveller rules.
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby NOLATrav » Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:16 am

The biggest complaint I hear about Traveller is leveling up. It’s really hard to feel like your character is growing through actual play. Accumulation of gear and wealth, sure, but that’s different.

I don’t think Traveller needs a big sexy property behind it, it is a big sexy property. The rules are sublime, you can actually do anything you want. Except level up - in the traditional sense anyway.

The Companion made some good strides in this direction but a small supplement about wafer jacks and subliminal instruction and isolation chambers instead of low berths… where you can get a +1 on a skill or a stat every few adventures… I don’t know if it would still be “Traveller” but it would remove a roadblock to new players/potential adopters I see all the time. Of course you have to “level up” the opposition as well and the 2D6 curve is anemic, so again, I don’t know if it would still be “Traveller” but if we’re talking new setting/paradigms it’s something to think about.
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby Sigtrygg » Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:30 am

No.
No experience points.
Definitely no level based advancement.
Clarification of the existing experience system would be a good idea though:
The experience which is gained as the individual character travels and adventures is an increased ability to play the role which he or she has assumed (1)

Limited personal development and experience is possible in the sense of increasing abilities and skills. Such potential for increases is possible in four specific areas, only one of which may be attempted at one time: education, weapon expertise, other skills, and physical fitness.(2)

The above are the only ordinary methods of self-improvement available to characters. Highly scientific or esoteric methods of improving personal skills and characteristics are logically available, provided the individuals search hard enough for them(3). Such methods could include RNA intelligence or education implants, surgical alteration, military or mercenary training, and other systems(4). Alternatives to the above methods must be administered by the referee.(5)
1- so no level gain, and typically skill/characteristic gain should be at the same rate as character generation - how many skill levels/characteristic points can be gained in MgT2e character gen in a single term? That becomes your experience limit - with one proviso...
2- how about being able to train in all four area at a time?
3- so the players have to describe how their characters go about using their wealth, experiences, knowledge to track down a source of improvement
4- here we get to the esoteric stuff - to which could be added stuff like VR training environments etc. - this is where the normal limit on skills/characteristics could be broken but there should be consequences to having your brain transplanted into a younger, genetically and bioaugmented clone or synthetic body
5- and finally here is the permission to do all of the above :)

Hmm, perhaps i should start a new thread instead of putting this here.
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby Condottiere » Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:02 pm

The current rumour is that Hasbro is going to sell off Wizards of the Coast, and you usually don't do that with a cash cow, unless you're in financial difficulties, you believe it's reached it's peak and the Chinese are likely to overpay for it's intellectual properties, and/or it's more trouble than it's worth.

From what I heard, the tabletop and home entertainment market reached new heights over the past year, and I suspect it's going to decline once lockdowns, or pseudo lockdowns, are gone.

So consolidation may occur, and some publishing houses may give up franchises.

At the same time, the supply chain issues are going to be with us for a while, depending on the industry, and to that you can add inflation.

On the bright side, PDFs are virtual, but you're still going to have an initial capital layout for the writer, the artist, the editors, and the servers, plus general overhead, which persists.

So, choose carefully, and good luck.
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby NOLATrav » Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:45 pm

Wow, that got dark pretty quick :wink:

I guess when I think the “future” of Traveller, I’m thinking of ways to attract new players. Hence my comment way up thread about exploring higher tech levels, that’s also a common complaint I hear. A lot of people seem to think Traveller is just old, not old school cool.

Wasn’t suggesting levels or xp or copying another system, just spitballing about a more robust way for players to get that flavor of juice. “Small supplement” was meant to be taken at face value. Maybe a JTAS article would be more to the point.
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby TrippyHippy » Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:58 am

Yep, it is a bit dark.

To be honest, I don’t think we are really in much of a position to speculate on the wider international or big business issues going on around the world. The bottom line for me is that if Mongoose keeps on making stuff that people want to buy, then the industry side of things will look after itself.

Regarding the XP system, or lack of, I also think this generally represents a misunderstanding of how Traveller handles it in game terms. Characters can advance, improving skills and the like, but it isn’t handled in a ‘game-y’ way in the manner of D&D. It’s more of a simulation exercise of putting time into something, taking a test, and advancing if successful - which is in tune with how it happens in character generation to a degree. You have to remember that starting skills are based on multiple terms of four years each, and skill levels often represent years of study rather than tiny incremental improvements. I think the optional rules in Traveller Companion is as much as needs to be done for the game. I do recognize that some people who haven’t played Traveller regard it as old fashioned and that is a shame, but I think it could be sold more on the merits of the game, rather than simply trying to follow conventions of other games.

That said, I still think there is merit in converting the Traveller game to D&D5e rules as an alternative line in a manner like Traveller20. Some people will hate it, but presenting the option might be a stepping stone for potential new Travellers. If that happened, then obviously, you could include Career-based Classes, Levels and XP as is standard. I actually think it could sell pretty well as a separate line alongside the traditional Traveller rules - in the same manner as The One Ring/Adventures in Middle Earth or the upcoming Legend of the Five Rings 5E adaptation.
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby paltrysum » Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:28 am

Doesn't Stars Without Number already provide a DnD 5e approach to sci-fi gaming with classes, levels, etc.?
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby TrippyHippy » Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:28 pm

Well, Stars Without Numbers isn’t Traveller and it isn’t 5E compatible.

I don’t see anything wrong with promoting the brand and competing against other games. All Stars Without Numbers suggests to me is there is a market for this type of game.
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby Being » Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:29 pm

WOTC is going to be rereleasing Spelljammer soon, I dont see any market in a D&D 5E Traveller version. (AIME 5E wasnt really that popular and a lot of regular D&D players did not like it that is why Cubicle did not bother retaining the licence. People wanted all the D&D troupes and were not happy with Middle Earth restrictions)
There is also Starfinder...

I really dont think Traveller needs a different experience system, character gen is youre experience system. I had some players come across from D&D wanting to know how experience worked, first few games they started to log training times. Now they dont bother.
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby TrippyHippy » Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:33 pm

I think the market for 5E based games is about to be flooded with a number of high profile IPs - Batman, Hellboy, Legend of the Five Rings and there are number of 5E sci-fi games that already exist. While Renegade Studios have given there own IPs - GI Joe, Transformers and Power Rangers their own system brand, but it is still a similar d20based system they are using.

Cubicle 7 dropping the Middle Earth license had nothing to do Adventures in Middle Earth for 5e (note: they dropped The One Ring too). I believe that AIME was one of Cubicle 7s top selling lines before they dropped the license. There will be a new Adventures in Middle Earth for 5E coming from Fria Ligen in the coming year.

Moreover, there is growing evidence that the D&D based market is possibly even bigger than the rest of the RPG hobby market combined at the moment. It may not be something that you or I, as Traveller fans, may be interested in - but it certainly due careful consideration. Spelljammer may come out but that occupies an entirely different niche to Traveller anyway - it is a space fantasy rather than science fiction. There is an opportunity to promote the Traveller brand to a growing and possibly younger audience if there is a 5E compatible game.

Also, on a side note, the official announcement of Project Pioneer for Traveller is definitely a thumbs up from me.
Last edited by TrippyHippy on Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby NOLATrav » Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:21 pm

TrippyHippy wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:33 pm
Also, on a side note, the official announcement of Project Pioneer for Traveller is definitely a thumbs up from me.
What’s Project Pioneer?
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby MongooseMatt » Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:45 pm

NOLATrav wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:21 pm
What’s Project Pioneer?
Full briefing coming in State of the Mongoose at the end of the month!
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Re: Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

Postby TrippyHippy » Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:38 pm

.....but I think you should just call it ‘Pioneer’ as a single word title, to match ’Traveller'.
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