Official 2300AD Comments Thread

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TrippyHippy
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby TrippyHippy » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:33 pm

ottarrus wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:33 pm
I talked to Colin about this when I was still on FB.
The name was changed because 'kafer' and 'kaffir' had nearly the same pronunciation and the latter had a very bad colonial racist connotation. Not quite as bad as the US 'nigger', about the same level as 'darky' or 'field hand'. And the term was pretty wide spread... the Germans, Belgians, South Africans all used it.
The actual etymology of the South African slur - and it is just as bad as saying ‘nigger’ in South Africa today - is different from the German word for bug/beetle. It stems from Arabic and means ‘infidel’ basically, but was adopted by colonists of various nations over time (probably via the slave trade).
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby ottarrus » Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:06 am

TrippyHippy wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:33 pm
ottarrus wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:33 pm
I talked to Colin about this when I was still on FB.
The name was changed because 'kafer' and 'kaffir' had nearly the same pronunciation and the latter had a very bad colonial racist connotation. Not quite as bad as the US 'nigger', about the same level as 'darky' or 'field hand'. And the term was pretty wide spread... the Germans, Belgians, South Africans all used it.
The actual etymology of the South African slur - and it is just as bad as saying ‘nigger’ in South Africa today - is different from the German word for bug/beetle. It stems from Arabic and means ‘infidel’ basically, but was adopted by colonists of various nations over time (probably via the slave trade).
Well, the word 'kaffir' shows up in Kipling and Richard Burton's writings, so that's where I got my 'colonial' take on it. It could reasonably be said that the Boer /South African usage is similar in origin.
What I didn't know was that the meaning was as offensive as you say it is. Living on the US West Coast, I'm literally a half a world away from South Africa and thus my knowledge of the area is limited to mostly military history and news reporting.

I still find it sad that in these days of political correctness and people looking for reasons to be offended even when none is intended that we have to discard a perfectly good bit of historical terminology that has nothing whatever to do with race because someone MIGHT get offended. It's like not using the word 'Niger' because of it's historical similarity to 'nigger'.
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby TrippyHippy » Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:39 am

ottarrus wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:06 am
I still find it sad that in these days of political correctness and people looking for reasons to be offended even when none is intended that we have to discard a perfectly good bit of historical terminology that has nothing whatever to do with race because someone MIGHT get offended. It's like not using the word 'Niger' because of it's historical similarity to 'nigger'.
To be sure, the ‘Kaefer’ spelling was introduced in the last edition to try and differentiate the two terms anyway.

While they may sound a bit similar, Kaefer has been used as a spelling of the German word ‘Käfer’ before - as other languages don’t necessarily recognise the ‘ä’ letter in their alphabet.

The pronunciation of the slur in South Africa is ‘ka-fer’ with a short, hard ‘a’, while the German “Käfer” is kay-fer with a long vowel sound.

‘Ae’ in English words like aerial is ‘air’ and in words like anaemic is ‘ee’, so the pronunciation of Kaefer is a bit nebulous, arguably.
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby Bill Sheil » Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:04 am

I still find it sad that in these days of political correctness and people looking for reasons to be offended even when none is intended that we have to discard a perfectly good bit of historical terminology that has nothing whatever to do with race because someone MIGHT get offended. It's like not using the word 'Niger' because of it's historical similarity to 'nigger'.
Well it was causing offense (and a fair damage to the franchise I believe) when it was first used in 2300AD publications back in the mid-80s so being uncomfortable with the use of a racially derogatory sounding name to describe a horde of primitive acting aliens besieging plucky colonialists is certainly not a recent manifestation of "political correctness".
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby Bill Sheil » Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:09 am

The pronunciation of the slur in South Africa is ‘ka-fer’ with a short, hard ‘a’, while the German “Käfer” is kay-fer with a long vowel sound.
Previous commenters stated that in South Africa it is pronounced with q long 'a' (as in Dutch). The short 'a' is used in UK/US English (where the insult is also used). Given this amorphousness I do not think Kay-fer is really distinct enough either.
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby Sigtrygg » Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:14 pm

Use the German word Käfer, make sure it is defined in a big sidebox, and you will nip all the woke nonsense in the bud.

If you go with kaefer or kafer it is only a matter of time before the wokerati at rpgnet get wind and start reeeeeing for a month.
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby Geoff-Ludum » Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:58 pm

Sigtrygg wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:44 am
I would suggest you go back to the original spelling of Kafer or better yet use the actual German word Käfer - your use of the word kaefer is highly problematic since it is the phonetic spelling of the worst South African pejorative (it is basically the n word). Go watch Lethal Weapon 2 - the South African Embassy scene...
Why not just call em 'Prawns'?
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby Sigtrygg » Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:11 pm

That would be Garnele... remember it is the Germans that first encounter them and nickname them beetles - the German word is...
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby TrippyHippy » Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:56 pm

Geoff-Ludum wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:58 pm
Why not just call em 'Prawns'?
Heh! District 9 reference....
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby Melbourne Accords » Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:46 am

Like swampslug, I would be interested to know the thinking behind the high Auto scores.

Providing generation tables for Core World characters as a free download is an excellent idea! 2300 is a compelling setting and I look forward to delving into it again with my players.

Thank for years of effort and for connecting so well with players, Colin.
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby GunbunnyFuFu » Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:45 pm

We're playing with the 2300AD rules now. Other than the information on the Paths being nebulous (do they offer any sort of mechanical benefit, etc), it plays out nicely for Frontier characters. Also, on characters from Beowulf, there isn't any information about the world of Beowulf outside the table information, and no information about either of the colonies on it save for their basic UCP. I'm not sure if that was an oversight or not. In fact, it appears to have happened on a couple of others...Botany Bay has no world information other than the table information, and Darwin Island lacks info but its basic UCP. Same with Kingsland.
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Provolution 2300 AD - GM (Fantasy Grounds VTT)
Betrayal 2300 AD - Player (Fantasy Grounds VTT)
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby GunbunnyFuFu » Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:24 pm

In the Cyberlimb weapons, it refers to the Hand Razors and Wrist Blades. It gives the weapon stats for them, however, it doesn't list the Surgery Time for these items. Can you advise the Surgery Time for them?

Thanks,

GBFF
Campaigns Currently in Progress:
Provolution 2300 AD - GM (Fantasy Grounds VTT)
Betrayal 2300 AD - Player (Fantasy Grounds VTT)
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby TrippyHippy » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:26 pm

GunbunnyFuFu wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:45 pm
We're playing with the 2300AD rules now. Other than the information on the Paths being nebulous (do they offer any sort of mechanical benefit, etc), it plays out nicely for Frontier characters. Also, on characters from Beowulf, there isn't any information about the world of Beowulf outside the table information, and no information about either of the colonies on it save for their basic UCP. I'm not sure if that was an oversight or not. In fact, it appears to have happened on a couple of others...Botany Bay has no world information other than the table information, and Darwin Island lacks info but its basic UCP. Same with Kingsland.
Each colony is listed as following the hard/soft path. Your character generation can be guided by that. The impact, mechanically, is not completely clear but I think it basically means that on the soft path characters can pick up any DNAMs necessary to survive on those planets/colonies based on the environmental issues listed. The hard path is more clear, and is stated in the Benefits - Hard path characters get a DM+1 on their Benefit rolls, whereas soft path get a DM-1 penalty.
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby GunbunnyFuFu » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:36 pm

Ah, OK...thank you much!

GBFF
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Provolution 2300 AD - GM (Fantasy Grounds VTT)
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby GunbunnyFuFu » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:10 pm

Matt,

Any update on the Core world rules release?

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Provolution 2300 AD - GM (Fantasy Grounds VTT)
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby MongooseMatt » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:24 pm

GunbunnyFuFu wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:10 pm
Matt,

Any update on the Core world rules release?

GBFF
Being worked on. It has only been a week :(
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby GunbunnyFuFu » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:32 pm

Ah, I was under the impression it was going to be released by the end of the day (8/29). My apologies. Not sure where I saw/read that at. Ah well. Looks like I'll have to wing it.

GBFF
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Provolution 2300 AD - GM (Fantasy Grounds VTT)
Betrayal 2300 AD - Player (Fantasy Grounds VTT)
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby Colin » Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:37 am

Tehre may have been some confusion around that. I said _I_ would be finished with it by the 29th. And I am. But then it has to be edited and proofed, then laid out. That takes time.
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby Colin » Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:40 am

They both have a Surgery time of 1 hour, and it will get noted to get fixed with the rest.
GunbunnyFuFu wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:24 pm
In the Cyberlimb weapons, it refers to the Hand Razors and Wrist Blades. It gives the weapon stats for them, however, it doesn't list the Surgery Time for these items. Can you advise the Surgery Time for them?

Thanks,

GBFF
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Re: Official 2300AD Comments Thread

Postby TrippyHippy » Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:52 am

Just further to the brief discussion above: could it be made a little clearer in character generation just what the application of the hard and soft paths are?

I think I get the gist of it - as stated above - but the application of soft path especially could be clarified better.

For example, does a Spacer only get the 0G DNAM if the soft path is chosen, despite it saying that ‘almost all’ have it? Could the types of DNAMs and symbiots that are generally given to soft path characters be listed with the data for each Colony? There seems to be a lot of looseness in the language - ‘may’ and ‘possibly’ - and it isn’t clear whether hard path characters can’t take these things as well.
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