Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

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Heartwarder
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Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Heartwarder » Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:31 pm

I have cobbled together a working Google Sheet spreadsheet to "automate" the process of building guns using rules presented in the Field Catalogue preview.
It is in early stages of development and only slug guns, with the exception of shotguns, are working. There is a lot of data to fill and lots of edge cases to correct, but it can now recreate some of the premade guns offered in the book, so I think it is ready for the public eyes.
Hope is, if the public can produce more guns and report more balance problems to the Developers, final version of the book will be better.
Without further ado, a link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing to the spreadsheet. Copy to edit.
Note: link for consequent version will change.
Should you find a bug or want to make a suggestion, use "comment" feature on the spreadsheet of respond here.
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:37 am

You might try to make it a little more accessible?

I can just about see it, but not use it, even then I have to open up my browser to an unacceptable level. No, I don't have a Google account, and I will not get it (and its attendant spyware).

Sorry for the rant, but I can't use, hence comment on your spreadsheet.
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Heartwarder
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Heartwarder » Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:06 pm

Sorry, exporting it to excel or ods breaks it, due to high utilization of "Named Range" feature.
I understand your reluctance to get google, although its tentacles can be contained within gDoc suit, but I cannot and will not switch to any excel-like alternatives in foreseeable future. Although I am looking for another medium to develop my "builders", because there are limits to what maintainable in a spreadsheet. Something that doesn't require me maintaining a server or programming a GUI. If you can suggest such a thing, I would be happy to consider it.
Otherwise, its as accessible as it can be.
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Kranth-Technoshaman » Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:14 pm

Looks good concept-wise my end, although I'm apparently throwing errors left and right by trying to do things it's not designed for.

***

FYI, Accelerator Rockets can be used with Gauss (table in MFC p.39) they are a modifier on the standard, so Gauss Accelerators are a thing.
e.g.
Small Gauss ++ 3D ++ 0.5Cr/Rd ++ No Ammo Capacity Change ++ 100m Base Range ++ No Traits ++ Emissions (Low) ++ Penetration +2
Accelerator Rocket ++ As Type ++ x 2 Cr/Rd ++ -40% Ammo Capacity ++ 250m Base Range ++ Inaccurate (-1), Zero-G ++ Physical(Nomal)

That to me means you can have a Gauss enhanced accelerator rocket.
3D ++ 1Cr/Rd ++ -40% Ammo Capacity ++ 100m Gauss/250m Rocket ++ Inaccurate (-1), Zero-G ++ Physical(Normal), Emissions (Low) ++ Penetration+2

I'd argue that it probably shouldn't get to keep Zero-G and have Gauss, and which range you use is debatable too as they've been given as fixed values.

Slap a guidance unit on, give it full auto/RF/VRF and pay for those Smart Gauss Accelerator Rounds... expensive ammo, but how often are you going to use it?


Haven't even tried to justify gauss shotguns with accelerator rockets, even my brain thinks that will just cause complaints.
Although.... smart accelerator gauss shotgun just sounds too much... but it could be fun.
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Heartwarder » Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:01 pm

Kranth-Technoshaman wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:14 pm
FYI, Accelerator Rockets can be used with Gauss (table in MFC p.39) they are a modifier on the standard, so Gauss Accelerators are a thing.
While as written, yeah, it can exist, I have hard time imagining such a thing. I can do it, but is there a merit beside breaking the system? I mean would a reasonable ref. allow such a thing?
Anyway, lets leave wild and crazy for when generic stuff is all working.
Speaking of which, it would help me a great deal if I had more examples of rules being used. In particular I wish someone explained to me better how RF/VRF supposed to go (I get the benefits, I don't quite get the requirements/costs) and how complete multi-barrel is supposed to work with their example of different ammo hunting gun.
I will probably have to separate shotguns into their own weapon type, as there are sneaky modifiers for receiver in shotgun ammo text. Why have receiver separated from ammo type in the first place? Also, the barrel implementation makes handgun ranges abysmal compared to not-so-great ranges of handguns in CSC.
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Kranth-Technoshaman » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:37 am

Let's see....

In-universe, the accelerator rockets are described as having a muzzel velocity that's very low (presumably this is where inacurate comes from), to fix that you could give them a boost from a Gauss system.
Doing so would leave you with a rocket that accelerates like a minimalist gauss system to start with, then accelerates to very high velocities.

If you make the gauss system variable, so it's reactive to local gravity for example, then you can keep zero-G, or you can have recoil and extended range.

I can see in-universe justification for a flexible weapon, especially one with a tracking system.


Now Gauss shotguns with acelerators, that's basically designed for Star Wars stormtroopers. Better to hit from shotgun pellet effect, tracking smart rockets, variable ammo (explosive/armour piercing etc), decent range or zero-G option.

Adding Gauss makes ammo expensive as anything, but if you aren't planning on getting into a lot of fights, or you are an empire with buckets of manufacturing available, it's not a bad option. Plus tracing Gyrojet rounds with integrated EM zap does have an appeal!


Have you tried making a continuous beam laser yet?
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Condottiere » Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:27 pm

1. Rocket powered bullets tends to imply continuous acceleration, until the fuel runs out.

2. It appears never to have made sense, except in an environment that's below Terran standard gravity, where I assume recoil throws off the aim more than normal.

3. Artillery use the rocket boost to extend range, but since that would be an area burst at the receiving end, you'd have to make the bullet guided.

4. As I understand shotguns, unless you have a solid slug, pellets scatter after leaving the barrel; in future, the shell might have a delayed expulsion, which means pellets start to scatter just before impact.
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Being » Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:55 pm

Increased velocity, tightens shot pattern, so just increasing velocity will result in tighter patterns. Shotguns, dont spread as much as commonly believed. Especially with Buckshot. Modern self defence loads are designed to keep tighter patterns as well.

Id like to know how you can make the Colvery Pistol on page 78. It has Auto 6 & Mag 6. According to the Core rules you use 3 times the Auto score in ammo. So it requires a mag of 18 to fire once.

The author doesnt understand Suppressors, Baffle suppressors actually increase velocity and accuracy slightly. Not enough to warrant a plus in a 2d6 system. But there shouldnt be a penalty for use. Wipe suppressors are used generally to reduce suppressor size and reduce decibel levels but they are a rare beast today. They do somewhat reduce velocity and accuracy. Enough to warrant a reduction in a 2d6 system?

Belt Fed weapons are given a -1 for inaccuracy because of Belt drag, honestly belt drag as a modifier in a 2d6 system is way OTT. In practical terms firing from a bipod or tripod, you wont ever notice it. Especially if a N0.2 is feeding. Maybe there is something to carrying it around with a dangling belt especially with canvas belts, but in a modern design.. maybe a TL variant rule... None of the belt fed designs seem to have it included in the book? If belt drag was that much of a thing, belt fed LMG/GPMG wouldnt have been widely adopted.

I understand the desire to make designs and accessories distinct but too many modifiers in a 2d6 system, skews the whole combat system. A lot of Traveller combat is abstract you cant even double tap or controlled pair a semi-auto weapon. Yet you can dual wield ?

Ive converted a lot of weapons to Traveller and submitted a few to the TAS. It never needed a design process I just worked from existing designs in the Core Book and Supply cat. However there are inconsistences there as well. So a design process is a good idea but too many modifiers doesnt really suit the 2d6 system.

It might be interesting to back engineer existing published weapons and see if they all fit the new design process.
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Heartwarder » Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:35 pm

Kranth-Technoshaman wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:37 am
In-universe, the accelerator rockets are described as having a muzzel velocity that's very low (presumably this is where inacurate comes from), to fix that you could give them a boost from a Gauss system.
If you give the rocket a boost by any means, be it with coils, rails or explosives, you get recoil. Defeats the purpose of rocket based recoillessness. Even if such active-reactive weapon might have a place, it should be treated as a different kind of projectile system. Much similar to RAM grenade launchers offered in CSC.
Inaccurate comes from the bad rep Gyrojet weapons devised in the last century have. Manufacturing miniature rocket and making it spin with a tiny off-center nozzle proved beyond technical capabilities of the time. Arguably now active and active-reactive systems are reevaluated, since capacity for manufacturing increased significantly. The author of the Field Catalogue is a bit stuck in the seventies looking at some of the fluff, though its not a big issue.
Being wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:55 pm
It might be interesting to back engineer existing published weapons and see if they all fit the new design process.

They don't. That is the main gripe I have with the new system. Power levels of equipment generated is significantly different from what was published before.
Being wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:55 pm
Id like to know how you can make the Colvery Pistol on page 78. It has Auto 6 & Mag 6. According to the Core rules you use 3 times the Auto score in ammo. So it requires a mag of 18 to fire once.
Overall I am not sure the authors of the Field Catalogue weapon design system and most other equipment in the book have a very good grasp of the preexisting rules of the MgT2. Or its just the many errors of the preprint edition that we are discussing... we will know soon enough.

I started tinkering with the system just because I am a spreadsheet addict. For the fun of it. And maybe to help the backers critique the book before it is cast in paper.
Unless the system is corrected to offer power levels compatible with other material, I don't see using it at my table much.
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Being » Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:35 pm

Ive started an Errata thread on the kickstarter page. Ive noted some sure there is more but get bored reading pdfs much prefer dead tree.

Yes I thought the back engineering wouldnt gel. I would have thought this was essential. ?! But its because the original designs were probably designed with rule of thumb rather than a design process.

Mind you there are inconsistencies in the already published weapons. Designing weapons for use is frustrating, as some of the existing designs dont make much sense but i had to treat them as guides when designing new ones.

Yes a lot of the research seems dated and random, like belt drag-micro...and even inaccurate, Bullpups can be downward ejectors..the suppressors.. I havnt even read most of it, I know its only a RPG.....

Mind you CT even though 1970s used basically 50/60s small arms tech descriptions.
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Heartwarder » Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:12 pm

Being wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:35 pm
Yes I thought the back engineering wouldnt gel. I would have thought this was essential. ?!
I know right? Why make a design system that wouldn't reproduce existing data points?
Also, it is called "reverse-engineering". Sorry :wink:

I have homebrewed a good deal of guns and stuff for MgT2, I have a good framework for it now that keeps power levels consistent.
Stuff without a particular theme: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 0F/pubhtml.
Missile weapons - handheld and beyond: https://docs.google.com/document/d/143J ... Tt6ss/edit.
Railguns from rifle size to a spinal: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Mmv ... MQN70/edit.
I was working on "Lasers Revisited" when Field Catalogue hit, that is on freeze indefinitely now.

But I digress, should return to the topic at hand.
It would help me a great deal if people submitted design logs for their custom guns to help me understand the rules better. I swear, more time goes toward deciphering what the book is trying to say than implementing it in code.
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Condottiere » Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:30 pm

1. I kinda suspect buckshot technology peters out around now.

2. At least for the military, they've probably moved on to flechettes.

3. Might explain why we're firing mini shurikens by technological level fourteen.
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Being » Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:10 pm

Interesting docs.

reverse engineering/back engineering/backwards engineering they are all acceptable terms.
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Being » Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:26 pm

Most militaries still use 2,3/4", 00 or N0.4 Buckshot and not even 3". Despite decades of research no successful rifle/shotgun fletchette round has been developed, they simply dont do enough damage from such weapons. Buckshot/slugs/ball ammo are more effective. Not sure what advanced TL can add. Shotguns are also losing their traditional LE role to carbine type weapons.
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Condottiere » Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:50 pm

In the Traveller context, I find it's hard to have a more useful firearm than a shotgun.

Let's assume that even the most restrictive interpretation of a law level allows a capacity of three total, so if you're walking around with a three barrel shotgun makes you look quaint (or weird), and like a missile launcher, you could have a really high technological level ammunition (assuming that isn't on the restricted list).

What's the term again, gyroscopic stabilizer? That should take care of the recoil, and reinforcing the breech should allow a more powerful propulsive force.
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Heartwarder » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:39 pm

Sorry, the development of this project kind of stalled. Too hot outside. Brain melted :oops:
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Heartwarder » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:26 pm

Being thinking about combining Gauss and Rocket stuff offered in the book as "addons" for conventional firearms... perhaps it can represent switch from chemical propulsion to magnetic and/or gravitic propulsion? How would we call it though, cause "Gauss Rocket Heavy Rifle" sounds a bit silly
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Kranth-Technoshaman » Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:31 am

Heartwarder wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:26 pm
Being thinking about combining Gauss and Rocket stuff offered in the book as "addons" for conventional firearms... perhaps it can represent switch from chemical propulsion to magnetic and/or gravitic propulsion? How would we call it though, cause "Gauss Rocket Heavy Rifle" sounds a bit silly
For Gauss it's easy enough, Magnetic Accelerator Enhanced (or Mag-Acc) [Weapon]. For Rockets, it's eg [Calibre] Rocket [Weapon].

That gives you a Mag-Acc Enhanced Heavy Rocket Rifle.

Bear in mind that I see no reason you couldn't use small high power Grav Plates to fire conventional projectiles, so you then have the option of Gravitic Accelerator Heavy Rocket Rifle for example. Maybe at higher TL though!
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby phavoc » Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:26 pm

While it's possible to get an accelerated launch velocity using magnetic/coil acceleration, mixing too many things in a single round makes for a worse round. Hyper-velocity cannons rely upon small, dense objects using their speed to generate more energy upon impact.

Rocket-powered rounds don't provide a better benefit for most rounds, but there are exceptions. If you are doing direct-fire, then high velocity is good since it's more energy. But higher velocities can also sometimes make your firing solution more tricky due to the speed of the round and less forgiving it is of misses. Ballistic rounds are a mixed-bag. IF you can get your round to randomly accelerate it makes shooting it down that much harder. But it also makes it harder to make them accurate enough to hit what you are shooting at. Not that they can't be overcome, however it does make it more complicated.
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Re: Mercenary Field Catalogue - Weapon Making Spreadsheet

Postby Condottiere » Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:48 pm

1. Rocket usually provides greater range.

2. Conceivably less accurate, unless guided.

3. With smallarms, usually more a question of minimizing recoil.

4. Increased penetration probably you use a better penetrator, and since I'm guessing minimizing recoil, an advanced form of shaped charge.

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