Excel Ship Designer

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:24 am

I don't think Small Weapons need this kind of turret:
Image

Otherwise they would take up space in addition to the turret by RAW, so a Light Auto-cannon would take 1 Dt, the turret 1 Dt, for a total of 2 Dt. I really don't think that was the intention...
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:31 am

A barbette mounted on a turret, and no comment?

Image

( I specified a barbette, then changed the mount to a turret. The barbette weapon remains, and is calculated without any comment or error, even in the Record Sheet.)
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:44 am

Crew calculation not appropriate for a small craft:
Image

Hence accomodation listed as a problem:
Image
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:53 am

Loading belts should presumably have a quantity field:
Image

The same loading belt system can't serve a 80 Dt cargo hold and a 80 000 Dt cargo hold?
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:16 am

Crew calculation a bit off:
Image

Image

No small ship in HG has either Administrators or Mechanics. I simply round those requirements down.
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:18 am

Black text on dark brown background: lacking contrast, difficult to read:
Image
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Arkathan
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby Arkathan » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:54 am

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:24 am
I don't think Small Weapons need this kind of turret:
Image

Otherwise they would take up space in addition to the turret by RAW, so a Light Auto-cannon would take 1 Dt, the turret 1 Dt, for a total of 2 Dt. I really don't think that was the intention...
Weapons 250 Kg and up require a turret. The turret takes up and holds one dton of weapons. If the weapon is larger than 1 ton, it requires a fixed mount.
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Arkathan
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby Arkathan » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:04 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:02 am
Collapsible tanks: Takes up no space.

Demountable tanks: Takes up no cargo space.
They takes up cargo space. Cargo management is not a feature of the construction program
With 72 Dt cargo, some Collapsible tanks and some Demountable tanks, cargo capacity is still 72 Dt?


Collapsible tanks are not described as temporary, unlike demountable tanks, so are presumably a "permanent" feature of the ship.
They are permanent Cargo, but still cargo. The empty and full values tell you how much cargo it uses.
The program does not calculate how much cargo you are using.
The example you showed indicates it is taking up ship space, when it clearly takes up cargo space, and you have to build a hold big enough to contain it.
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby Arkathan » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:09 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:44 am
Crew calculation not appropriate for a small craft:

Hence accomodation listed as a problem:
Which is why there are three calculations for crew and you can choose between them.
If the ship does not conform to the standard calculation in HG, Custom would be the correct setting.

The only change I am considering here is an external troops/marine spot so you don't have to use custom just because you want marines, unless a good idea/reason pops up for something else.
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby Arkathan » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:12 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:18 am
Black text on dark brown background: lacking contrast, difficult to read:
It's set to a more solid shade of green. No space is yellow. Some space is light green, enough space or more is regular green.
This may be a version thing.
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby Arkathan » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:15 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:53 am
Loading belts should presumably have a quantity field:
Image

The same loading belt system can't serve a 80 Dt cargo hold and a 80 000 Dt cargo hold?
They do. Each loading belt is attached and calculated with the set of similar bays.
You have an 80 dton bay indicated.
Another bay group would have a similar qty field.

Are you requesting a different way of reporting the loading belts on the record sheet?
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby Arkathan » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:22 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:03 am
Small craft: Barbette cost wrong, Power consumption wrong:

Image

Should be MCr 8 and Power 15 × 75% = 11.25, respectively.

There are no Fixed Mounts involved in barbettes?
A firm point is a fixed mount on a small craft. Fixed mounts take up two firm points, so +200,000 Cr.

I'll check on why the power calculations is not applying.
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:03 pm

Arkathan wrote: Weapons 250 Kg and up require a turret. The turret takes up and holds one dton of weapons. If the weapon is larger than 1 ton, it requires a fixed mount.
All "Smaller Weapons" require fixed mounts or turrets, just as weapons mounted on vehicles do. It's not the same type of turrets as spacecraft weapons.

Barbettes are also turrets of some sort...

Smaller Weapons
It is possible to equip a spacecraft with Ground scale weaponry. This is usually done on small craft designed to operate regularly within an atmosphere while engaging ground targets but any spacecraft can use them.

Any weapon with a mass less than 250 kg can be mounted on a spacecraft at a cost of Cr1000 (the cost of the actual weapon is in addition to this). They will draw no Power from the spacecraft, as it is assumed their energy requirements are tiny in comparison to other systems, and nor do they require a hardpoint, but will consume 1 ton. However, up to four such weapons may be mounted for each ton dedicated to them. They will be attached to fixed mounts on any spacecraft of less than 50 tons, and small pop-up turrets operated from a remote station on larger ships.

Weapons of a mass of 250 kg or more will consume an amount of space equal to their mass, to a minimum of 1 ton. They are required to be mounted in turrets (if they mass one ton or less) or fixed mounts and again, will consume no power.

I could be wrong, and AndrewW is welcome to school me, but as far as I can see "Smaller Weapons" takes no hardpoints and uses no spacecraft turrets.

Ground scale weapons are generally useless enough not to be a problem.
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:07 pm

Arkathan wrote: They do. Each loading belt is attached and calculated with the set of similar bays.
You have an 80 dton bay indicated.
Another bay group would have a similar qty field.

Are you requesting a different way of reporting the loading belts on the record sheet?
This can't be right:
Image

Image

A single Dt of Loading Belt will not do much good offloading 80000 Dt cargo?
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby AndrewW » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:23 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:03 pm
I could be wrong, and AndrewW is welcome to school me, but as far as I can see "Smaller Weapons" takes no hardpoints and uses no spacecraft turrets.
Correct, don't need a hardpoint.
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:24 pm

Arkathan wrote: A firm point is a fixed mount on a small craft. Fixed mounts take up two firm points, so +200,000 Cr.
No. That sentence has been misunderstood and debated since beta, including by me.

A firmpoint is a type of hardpoint, but for small craft.

On a hardpoint (or firmpoint) we can install weapon mounts such as Fixed Mounts, Turrets, or Barbettes.

A firmpoint can only support a single weapon, whether mounted in a Fixed Mount or Turret.


Correct price: Firmpoint (MCr 0) + Fixed Mount (MCr 0.1) + Laser (MCr 1) = MCr 1.1
Image

Correct price: Firmpoint (MCr 0) + Single Turret (MCr 0.2) + Laser (MCr 1) = MCr 1.2. No fixed mount involved.
Image

Incorrect price: Firmpoint (MCr 0) + Particle Barbette (MCr 8) = MCr 8. No fixed mount involved.
Image
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:28 pm

Incorrect power: Fixed Mount (0 Power) + Laser (4 Power × 75%) = 3 Power
Image

Correct power: Turret (1 Power) + Laser (4 Power × 75%) = 4 Power
Image

Incorrect power: Barbette (15 Power × 75%) = 11.25 Power
Image
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:30 pm

AndrewW wrote: Correct, don't need a hardpoint.
Thank you.
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby Arkathan » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:46 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:07 pm
Arkathan wrote: They do. Each loading belt is attached and calculated with the set of similar bays.
You have an 80 dton bay indicated.
Another bay group would have a similar qty field.

Are you requesting a different way of reporting the loading belts on the record sheet?
This can't be right:
Image

Image

A single Dt of Loading Belt will not do much good offloading 80000 Dt cargo?
What size bay requires ten workers? This is similar to the problem I have with Cannonades.

If your cargo can be split into smaller bays, 10x 8000 ton bays will offload faster than 100 belts on an 80k bay, since you can only offload as fast as the crane or people can get cargo to the belts.
If you are carrying something so big it has to be in an 80k bay, your belts are not going to help. You need specialized equipment to get that off if it won't move on its own.
You can always state that your 10 8k bays are partitioned to accommodate larger cargos in the notes.
I always wondered about the belts anyway, since you can change the gravity on the deck plates.
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Re: Excel Ship Designer

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:16 pm

Arkathan wrote: What size bay requires ten workers? This is similar to the problem I have with Cannonades.
Yes, it's completely undefined how you unload ships, and how long it takes. Presumably we are not using stevedores carrying sacks on their backs, hence the description of the loading belt doesn't help much.

But it has to be somehow related to the size of the cargo hold? I can't even suggest any specific number of loading belts, so I'm suggesting a configurable quantity of loading belts.

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