Travellers Needed - Core Rulebook Reprint

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Condottiere
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Re: Travellers Needed - Core Rulebook Reprint

Postby Condottiere » Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:01 pm

Language can be a weapon, applied correctly and amorally.
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Re: Travellers Needed - Core Rulebook Reprint

Postby TrippyHippy » Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:36 am

Well, that is a left field response.

What are you trying to argue?
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Condottiere
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Re: Travellers Needed - Core Rulebook Reprint

Postby Condottiere » Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:34 am

Very few players are great orators and/or actors, and it seems the ones that are, like Critical Role, actually do get compensated (substantially, it would appear in their case), that even if the dungeon master doesn't give an outline of what he expects to happen in the campaign and/or next session, you could afford to make a cheat sheet of likely actions, reactions and dialogue to any particular situation, that your character can say or do.

Players can rely on magic, feats, characteristics, and/or skills to get over hurdles where the spoken word would be required to make another character, player or non, do something, which they would be more, less, or not, inclined to do so.

Unless you're doggedly determined, we've substituted social standing for charisma, and going over the skill list, Administration, Advocate, Art, Broker, Carouse, Deception, Diplomat, Gambler, Investigate, possibly Jack of All Trades, Language, Leadership, Persuade, Steward, Streetwise, possibly Tactics.

And since you need a way to convey your message to get the right effect, a mastery of the appropriate language, or at least phraseology, is needed.

I believe the current term is triggering your audience.
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Re: Travellers Needed - Core Rulebook Reprint

Postby TrippyHippy » Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:01 pm

But Language skill doesn’t necessarily grant you any of that. It covers comprehension and communication, rather than leadership or persuasion, which is handled by other skills accordingly.

If it assumed that everybody speaks a common language anyway, and that technology covers the rest (or even having Science (Linguistics) at Level 0), as the rules currently do, then having Language 0 is pretty redundant, and having any higher levels is going to be overly specialized too.
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Re: Travellers Needed - Core Rulebook Reprint

Postby Condottiere » Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:21 pm

Language is a big tent, or a Swiss Army Knife.

In order to convey a message to get a particular reaction, you need to know the words to use, when to use them, and with what tone.

Combine Language with Persuasion, and you should be better able to formulate that message, because Language isn't just about being able to articulate sophisticated sophistries, but also crude ones, that you calculate the listener is more appreciative of.

Language is the conveyance of information, but it has to be in the form that the receiver can fully understand, so having a higher skill doesn't mean the words become more academic and incomprehensible.
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Re: Travellers Needed - Core Rulebook Reprint

Postby TrippyHippy » Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:07 pm

You are missing the point.

In the game as it stands, you don’t need the Language skill to communicate. The game assumes everybody speaks a shared language and that technology (translaters) can do everything else.

The various Persuasion or Leadership tests are handled by other skills. Language, as a skill, is currently quite redundant.
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Re: Travellers Needed - Core Rulebook Reprint

Postby Condottiere » Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:14 pm

You can convey basic concepts, and a universal translator is only as good as the words actually spoken express the meaning.

The point being, that language skill in Traveller isn't as redundant as it seems to be perceived.

Using skills like Administration or Carousing to communicate is a game mechanic meant to simplify interaction, or our version of magic spells like Charm Person, or Suggestion.
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Re: Travellers Needed - Core Rulebook Reprint

Postby TrippyHippy » Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:59 pm

Well, put it this way - it isn’t reflected in the rules as written. There is no example given or expressed use of the Language skill to be able to do any of the things you describe. To make it work that way involves personal interpretation of the skill, and possibly altering how it describes itself.

As it stands, the skill is pretty redundant. Your argument would make good grounds for changing the way the skill is expressed in the rules.
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Re: Travellers Needed - Core Rulebook Reprint

Postby Faelderg » Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:14 am

Everyone is assumed to speak the same language, assuming that they live under the same polity. I'm more than willing to bet that there are lots of people in the Vargr Extents, Aslan Hierate, Zhodani Consulate, The Glorious Empire, Two Thousand Worlds and Hive Federation that don't speak what is more or less the standard language of The Imperium or Solomani Sphere. Yes there are translator programs, that not everyone can afford, but I doubt that they have the programing to properly translate a conversation between two people with 4 or 5 points of Jumpspace Physics or other advanced sciences.
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Re: Travellers Needed - Core Rulebook Reprint

Postby TrippyHippy » Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:30 am

Faelderg wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:14 am
Everyone is assumed to speak the same language, assuming that they live under the same polity. I'm more than willing to bet that there are lots of people in the Vargr Extents, Aslan Hierate, Zhodani Consulate, The Glorious Empire, Two Thousand Worlds and Hive Federation that don't speak what is more or less the standard language of The Imperium or Solomani Sphere. Yes there are translator programs, that not everyone can afford, but I doubt that they have the programing to properly translate a conversation between two people with 4 or 5 points of Jumpspace Physics or other advanced sciences.
Which highlights the other problem. If there are a vast number of planets and, presumably, a vast number of languages and dialects, then having just one or two languages known is not a high degree of probability that you will know the right one.....without technology. So, what advantage is it to have the skill? Further to this, although it highlights the use of translator computer programs in the Language skill itself, it doesn’t actually include the software in the Equipment chapter. This gives the impression that it is assumed all computers have this software included?
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Re: Travellers Needed - Core Rulebook Reprint

Postby Garran » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:04 am

TrippyHippy wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:30 am
it doesn’t actually include the software in the Equipment chapter. This gives the impression that it is assumed all computers have this software included?
Erm, it does. Page 106 covers software suites.
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Re: Travellers Needed - Core Rulebook Reprint

Postby Condottiere » Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:56 am

I think we got used to a lot of handwavium in regards to communications.

There are two principal things that sparked my sudden uptick of interest in Language.

1. Uhura being a cunning linguist.

2. Adding a translator auxiliary to my made up paramilitary corps, reflecting on the lessons of Iraq and Afghanistan, or post mortem thereof.
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Re: Travellers Needed - Core Rulebook Reprint

Postby TrippyHippy » Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:16 am

Garran wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:04 am
TrippyHippy wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:30 am
it doesn’t actually include the software in the Equipment chapter. This gives the impression that it is assumed all computers have this software included?
Erm, it does. Page 106 covers software suites.
Ah. OK, missed that.
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