Monetary system?

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dmclean62
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Monetary system?

Postby dmclean62 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:59 pm

Are there any parts of the official Mongoose second edition rules that discuss banking and the monetary system?

There's a page on the wiki, but it has at least one serious reality error on it.

I wasn't sure where to look. A comprehensive index would be really handy about now.
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NOLATrav
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Re: Monetary system?

Postby NOLATrav » Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:00 pm

There is some discussion in the Equipment chapter, starting on page 91 of the Core rules.
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dmclean62
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Re: Monetary system?

Postby dmclean62 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:31 pm

Excellent, thank you.

And that clearly disagrees with what is in the Wiki article on at least two major points.
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Re: Monetary system?

Postby Sigtrygg » Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:04 pm

What are the issues as you see them?
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Ursus Maior
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Re: Monetary system?

Postby Ursus Maior » Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:25 pm

I certainly hope that the Third Imperium sourcebook, which is due this year, will talk about that.
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Re: Monetary system?

Postby Condottiere » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:43 pm

I suspect that the Credite Imperiale is the Third Imperium reserve currency and legal tender.

So, faith based.
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Re: Monetary system?

Postby PsiTraveller » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:51 am

viewtopic.php?f=89&t=120883&hilit=banking

Here's a link to a previous thread on money and banking.

The canon in the wiki article holds that advanced computing makes electronic transfer of funds susceptible to fraud, so cash only. There is a portable bank teller machine, and worlds above TL13 may accept an Imperial Standard credit card.

The Hivemind on here has pointed out that the Xboat network could move files securely and move banking details around the system. Heist scenarios would then have to target the locations where data from the banks is put into the mail data storage drum.

If you go with a cash society because of high tech quantum fraud then you have ships carrying millions in cash to pay for repairs, making them fatter targets for piracy. The other oddity is that if a ship has a mortgage how is it paid off every month if the players are dashing across the space lanes? If electronic records can be faked, then having documents saying you paid your mortgage three planets ago seems easier to fake.

Shadows of Sindal has crates of money with 60 million in cash. Scenarios for getting a fraction of the money back as usable currency are discussed in the module. In a cash heavy system the appearance of large bundles of currency would not seem to bat an eye. If someone had to pay a couple of million in cash to replace an M-Drive unit, why would you have to launder stacks of cash?

edit: typo
Last edited by PsiTraveller on Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Condottiere
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Re: Monetary system?

Postby Condottiere » Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:50 pm

Basically, you force everyone to pay taxes, and tell them it has to be in the form of Credite Imperiales.

Any regime outside the Imperium would have to be pretty desperate to link their currency with the Imperium's, or rely on it totally.
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dmclean62
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Re: Monetary system?

Postby dmclean62 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:09 am

Well, one thing that we know now about quantum computing is that there absolutely are crypto algorithms that are quantum secure. So the future of money in societies that have quantum computing is probably not any different than what we have right now. Though probably faster, and with better network protocols.

In fact, page 91 of the MgT2 Core Rules, pretty much says exactly that. Also, if the characters are traveling to another star system, they can send money ahead.

I asked about the article on the wiki and how it differs from what's in the core rules and one of the people in charge told me to go ahead and update the wiki since what was there was not, as far as he knew, actual canon.
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Re: Monetary system?

Postby Old School » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:20 am

I agree with Phavoc’s comments on the prior thread: the wiki comments regarding banking when information speed is largely limited to travel speed is bunk. Such problems can and historically have been overcome. A ship or individual outrunning their banking information is a real issue, but not an insurmountable one.

Keep in mind that classic traveller was written in 1977, long before cryptocurrency. In the 70s the US Navy paid sailors at sea in cash. No reason to do so now, and even then electronic commerce existed, just not at today’s scale.

The wiki also states encryption is essentially impossible due to quantum computing. If that’s true, you essentially have a society with zero privacy, which has implications far beyond the financial sector. No personal, corporate, or government record stored electronically can be secure in that scenario.

No government is going to allow a cash only society to exist more than they have to. Electronic records have a very useful purpose: proof of taxes owed. That’s a major issue with the marijuana business in the US. Selling dope is legalized under many states, but federally chartered banks ( pp(and many small banks) won’t accept their deposits, because that’s money laundering under federal law. So everything is done in cash, or at least it was a few years ago. This makes fraud very easy, and the industry much more difficult to regulate.
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Re: Monetary system?

Postby Old School » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:25 am

Ursus Maior wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:25 pm
I certainly hope that the Third Imperium sourcebook, which is due this year, will talk about that.
A worthy endeavor, but also A lot of pressure to put on Mr. Griffin. He’d probably starting from scratch given the nonsense and contradictions that are in previous publications, and I doubt it’s possible to come up with anything that would get widespread agreement.
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Re: Monetary system?

Postby Condottiere » Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:59 pm

In ShadowRun, criminal organizations create parallel currencies, and even today, there are black and grey markets.

Last I heard, Tide laundry soap was used as currency among drug dealers.

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