Ship weapon characteristics questions

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Geir
Mongoose
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Ship weapon characteristics questions

Postby Geir » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:26 pm

I'm fixing up my ship design spreadsheet to be a little less manual, because I'm making too many mistakes with manual formulas and typos (yes, I know there's a really good spreadsheet out there, but I don't understand it well enough to be able to tweak it and I like my own format).

Standard weapons systems are well defined, but when I started to add 'High-tech' Highquard weapons and Traveller Companion weapons to the list, I've started to run into some holes in the data:
In Highguard, why are the Meson Gun Bays TL 11 and not 12? (for that matter, why are they 'optional' when stuff like the tachyon gun ought to be, but I already ranted once on that)
What are the armor reductions for Super Laser and Antimatter Spinal mounts? Why isn't the max size for an Antimatter Spinal a multiple of the base size?
In the Companion, who much space does a Carronade need? 4 hardpoints, yes, but is it 0 tons, 4 tons, or some other number?

There's also a question about why Fusion Gun Bays don't produce radiation, but I just assume that a was mistake and treat them like they do.
I'm also sort of peezed that there are no standard plasma bays - yes marginal in effect compared to same tech particle bays and higher tech fusion bays, but sometimes you just don't want to spew radiation (unless that mistake on the fusion bays is really not a mistake at all, but some weird unexplained radiation-reducing physics)
Geir Lanesskog
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AnotherDilbert
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Re: Ship weapon characteristics questions

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:55 pm

Geir wrote: In Highguard, why are the Meson Gun Bays TL 11 and not 12? (for that matter, why are they 'optional' when stuff like the tachyon gun ought to be, but I already ranted once on that)
T5 (presumably MWM) has decided that mesons are spinals only in the OTU.

Geir wrote: What are the armor reductions for Super Laser and Antimatter Spinal mounts?
Presumably like Particle, the default.

Geir wrote: Why isn't the max size for an Antimatter Spinal a multiple of the base size?
Size is modified by TL, but max size is not modified. There is no reason the max size has to be a multiple of the base TL size.
Geir
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Re: Ship weapon characteristics questions

Postby Geir » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:52 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:55 pm
Geir wrote: In Highguard, why are the Meson Gun Bays TL 11 and not 12? (for that matter, why are they 'optional' when stuff like the tachyon gun ought to be, but I already ranted once on that)
T5 (presumably MWM) has decided that mesons are spinals only in the OTU.
And I thought your spreadsheet was hard to interpret... but looking cross-eyed at T5, a Meson is only 'Main', but that starts at 200 tons (no 500 ton bays there).

But if that's the case for Mongoose OTU, then what exactly is the point of a meson screen? I interpret 5 screens stopping 1DD of damage as 1 little DD, not 1 BIG DD, so the screens don't seem to have any effect on spinal meson guns (and even if you interpret it as BIG DD, you would need 10 to drop the smallest Meson Gun, so they ought to be sized that way).

Mesons used to be small enough for communicators. So making them only spinal sized is a big retcon (And yes, I know real mesons don't really behave as described in classic Traveller, but a tank was just a thing that held water until WW I changed its meaning, so I figure mesons are really exotic particles that only react with ordinary matter where the beam collide, like some odd super-symmetry neutrino or something).
Geir Lanesskog
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AnotherDilbert
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Re: Ship weapon characteristics questions

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:12 pm

Geir wrote: And I thought your spreadsheet was hard to interpret...
Sorry, it's not exactly designed, it just grew with the simplest solution to each added functionality. It's a mess, I know...

Geir wrote: ... but looking cross-eyed at T5, a Meson is only 'Main', but that starts at 200 tons (no 500 ton bays there).
"Main" is a type of spinal for small ships. Real spinals are for larger ships, not yet detailed in T5.

Bays are base 50 or 100 Dtons only in T5.

Geir wrote: But if that's the case for Mongoose OTU, then what exactly is the point of a meson screen? I interpret 5 screens stopping 1DD of damage as 1 little DD, not 1 BIG DD, so the screens don't seem to have any effect on spinal meson guns (and even if you interpret it as BIG DD, you would need 10 to drop the smallest Meson Gun, so they ought to be sized that way).
Screens reduce damage of attacks after damage is rolled and reduced by armour, it does not remove dice from the attack.

So, yes a meson screen reduces inflicted damage by 2D × Effect once per turn (see Angle Screen, HG p33). With a really good, enhanced gunner that can be about 50 damage average.

So, 100 screens can reduce most of the damage of a 2DD meson spinal. At TL-15 that is only 800 Dton (+power and gunners).

Actually it's cheap to prevent a single meson spinal attack per round. The problem is it's pointless if the enemy concentrate 5-10 spinal attacks on a single target. IMHO meson screens are pointless in a battle between battle squadrons, but can easily be decisive in a battle between single cruisers.
Geir
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Re: Ship weapon characteristics questions

Postby Geir » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:41 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:12 pm
Geir wrote:
But if that's the case for Mongoose OTU, then what exactly is the point of a meson screen? I interpret 5 screens stopping 1DD of damage as 1 little DD, not 1 BIG DD, so the screens don't seem to have any effect on spinal meson guns (and even if you interpret it as BIG DD, you would need 10 to drop the smallest Meson Gun, so they ought to be sized that way).
Screens reduce damage of attacks after damage is rolled and reduced by armour, it does not remove dice from the attack.

So, yes a meson screen reduces inflicted damage by 2D × Effect once per turn (see Angle Screen, HG p33). With a really good, enhanced gunner that can be about 50 damage average.

So, 100 screens can reduce most of the damage of a 2DD meson spinal. At TL-15 that is only 800 Dton (+power and gunners).

Actually it's cheap to prevent a single meson spinal attack per round. The problem is it's pointless if the enemy concentrate 5-10 spinal attacks on a single target. IMHO meson screens are pointless in a battle between battle squadrons, but can easily be decisive in a battle between single cruisers.
I've looked at that page for a couple of years and never noticed the "by Effect" multiplier, concentrating only on the Meson Screen section, not the Angle Screens box. Doesn't matter, since capital ship battles haven't been much of a thing for me. But it would change some design considerations a bit, making the screens at least marginally useful. I still think they (Miller, Mongoose, somebody) should mainstream meson gun bays, though, even if they probably don't actually shoot mesons.

Still would like to find out how many tons Carronades require. (I could pull 20 tons out of a hat and claim they're like 4 barrettes). I also think they should be reduced to short range to better fit the description and make them shorter range than regular plasma and fusion weapons. Or just ignore them and move on.
Geir Lanesskog
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