Does the Scout come with weapons?

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Master_of_Ritual
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Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby Master_of_Ritual » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:18 am

It says it comes with a 1-ton double turret, but it doesn't specify what kind of weapon they are or list a power requirement for them. I see people using the term "hard points" which I have not seen in the core book. I'm assuming they go into that in in High Guard.
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby AndrewW » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:55 am

Master_of_Ritual wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:18 am
It says it comes with a 1-ton double turret, but it doesn't specify what kind of weapon they are or list a power requirement for them. I see people using the term "hard points" which I have not seen in the core book. I'm assuming they go into that in in High Guard.
The Type S Scout Courier comes with an empty double turret, no weapons are mounted in it by default.

Ships have 1 hardpoint per 100 tons, this is where turrets are mounted. Barbette's, bays and spinal mount weapons also use hardpoints.
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby Reynard » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:49 pm

Imperium's way of saying you're 'borrowing' the ship and do what you want with it but we won't be responsible handing you actual weapons.

I notice a lot of iconic ships have little to no power allocated to future energy weapons suggesting most of those ships will rely solely on missile system unless the crew save up for a power system upgrade. I often allocate unspent power points in designs for later turret and energy weapon options.

Of all the ships available as a benefit that have turrets are the ship's boat firmpoint and the scout's double turret. None have weapons to begin with. Of the dozen non-warship/express boat adventure class ships featured, 8 have turrets but only 4 have weapons and those are mostly unusual ships such as the asteroid ship, Annic Nova and Leviathan plus the Princess Marava which isn't known for trading in safe places. Most of the other ships are supposed to play it safe within the 100d region and well patrolled interplanetary space lanes, HOWEVER, if you're really need to go elsewhere or are deathly afraid of pirates then we have a full line of turrets and weapons at a... fair price when you get the cash or add to your mortgage as well as upgrade the plant to actually fire them.
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby Master_of_Ritual » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:57 pm

Thanks for answering, guys.

It does seem to come with an air/raft though!?
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby Ursus Maior » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:49 pm

Yes, it does. Yacht and Safari ship come with small craft and/or vehicles, too.
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby Condottiere » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:00 am

I believe the technical term would be demilitarized.

As regards to power budget deficits, that may lie more with the game designers and edition evolution.
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby Sigtrygg » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:10 am

Yup, unintended consequence of the High Guard 80 energy point system.

In LBB2 your pp can provide all the energy needed to every weapon. Fit a slightly larger pp and you can double fire your lasers.

This should have been the base line when designing HG80 - a pp of equal size to the m-drive should be able to power the ship's computer, turret weapons, and 'agiliy'.
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby GarethL » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:43 am

Shutting down unneeded systems to free up powet is pretty much part of the setting though - if you're using weapons you can likely ship down the j-drive and cut power to unnecessary systems (halve power requirements for the basic systems),

Most ships have adequate power given that,
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby Reynard » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:35 pm

I am under the assumption the J drive uses no power until activated for the actual jump. That's why I normally design the jump energy separate and all other power is prioritized. Once the jump is active, you won't be firing weapons or using maneuver. Sometimes if a design has jump greater than maneuver, I allocate extra power (and a larger power plant) to accommodate the difference.

A lot depends on what you would think a vessel will need in the future. Many of those adventure ships don't *normally* expect to see combat so no weapons and often no turrets. Missiles are the cheap go to for worry warts with some cash. This may be one reason the power capacity is very close to zero sum. Player characters are *always* the exception. You can always have the scout or trader (or lab) that was kitted with a larger plant of 4 or 8 extra powers point plus power needed for a missing turret because someone special ordered it. Just remove the equivalent cargo space and up the sell price for calculating the mortgage. Using the Older Ship rules would explain the upgrades nicely and remember the Millennium Falcon was an older, very quirky ship.

My one big cheat is using ship shares as funds for upgrading and stocking a benefits vessel as the group desires (with some limits). We did that in a Pirates of Drinax campaign I played in. My engineer/pirate character had shares which I deemed were a ship's weapon we needed. It was cached during her former pirate days and was a mini adventure to recover.

So the are ways to 'give' a scout guns and make it a believable part of the campaign story.
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby NOLATrav » Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:10 pm

Reynard wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:35 pm
My engineer/pirate character had shares which I deemed were a ship's weapon we needed. It was cached during her former pirate days and was a mini adventure to recover.
Brilliant. Love making ship shares more flexible and useful, doing this IMTU from now on.
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby Condottiere » Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:37 pm

The jump drive can be battery operated.

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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby DickTurpin » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:51 pm

Condottiere wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:37 pm
The jump drive can be battery operated.
It is my understanding that a jump drive needs to be powered for the entire week it is operating. Batteries cannot do that unless you have the power plant capacity to keep recharging them in which case the batteries are redundant. But the M-drive, sensors and weapons are not used in jump space so that power can be diverted. Batteries will allow a ship to initiate a jump during a running battle, you just need to get power reallocated before the batteries run out to avoid the j-drive shutting down prematurely.

I do not know what would happen if the j-drive shuts off in jump space but it can't be good. Automatic mis-jump is about the best that I would expect.
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby AndrewW » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:14 pm

DickTurpin wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:51 pm
It is my understanding that a jump drive needs to be powered for the entire week it is operating. Batteries cannot do that unless you have the power plant capacity to keep recharging them in which case the batteries are redundant. But the M-drive, sensors and weapons are not used in jump space so that power can be diverted. Batteries will allow a ship to initiate a jump during a running battle, you just need to get power reallocated before the batteries run out to avoid the j-drive shutting down prematurely.
High Guard, page: 108 wrote:The jump drive is powered by the battery, which is recharged during the normal refuelling operations.
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby Geir » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:59 pm

AndrewW wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:14 pm
DickTurpin wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:51 pm
It is my understanding that a jump drive needs to be powered for the entire week it is operating. Batteries cannot do that unless you have the power plant capacity to keep recharging them in which case the batteries are redundant. But the M-drive, sensors and weapons are not used in jump space so that power can be diverted. Batteries will allow a ship to initiate a jump during a running battle, you just need to get power reallocated before the batteries run out to avoid the j-drive shutting down prematurely.
High Guard, page: 108 wrote:The jump drive is powered by the battery, which is recharged during the normal refuelling operations.
The specific example quoted being the Express Boat, which came from classic traveller design limitations not giving it enough room for much but a jump drive (the description says: Power Plant: None. Jump drives carry power plant capacities and functions.). Which begs the question, not spelled out unambiguously: Do you need external power applied to the jump drive after initiating jump? If the answer is yes and the consequence being jump space incursion, there would probably need to be triple redundant systems to prevent any interruption of power. Though I don't believe its clearly spelled out anywhere (I'm sure I'll be corrected) the safest assumption is that the power and fuel (or Collector exotic particles) are required to initiate the jump field, bubble, whatever and that little pocket universe will sustain itself for the duration of the jump regardless of the power state of the ship and its jump drive or power plant subsequent to the jump. But I could be wrong.
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:31 pm

DickTurpin wrote: It is my understanding that a jump drive needs to be powered for the entire week it is operating.
Core, p144 wrote: Jump Drive: In order to use the jump drive, the ship requires a number of Power points equal to 10% of the hull’s total tonnage multiplied by the maximum jump number the drive is capable of. Note that this power requirement is only needed when the ship actually initiates a jump – at all other times, the jump drive remains inert.
It's a one time power drain the turn you initiate jump, not during the entire jump.


DickTurpin wrote: I do not know what would happen if the j-drive shuts off in jump space but it can't be good.
Canon is clear (since JTAS#24): the jump cannot be aborted or changed once it has started, you will exit jump at the predetermined time and place no matter what you do.

Most recently:
T5.10, B2p116 wrote: A ship cannot voluntarily terminate jump early.
If its drives are destroyed, it still exits Jump Space at the end of the Jump time period (rather than immediately).
Even if the jump drive or power plant is deliberately destroyed, the ship will exit jump space as usual.

If the jump field is collapsed or breached, the remains of the ships will exit jump space as usual:
T5.10, B2p116 wrote: If the Jump Field is breached, much of the matter is destroyed by Jump Space. What matter that remains exits Jump Space at the end of the time period.
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:44 pm

Geir wrote: The specific example quoted being the Express Boat, which came from classic traveller design limitations not giving it enough room for much but a jump drive (the description says: Power Plant: None. Jump drives carry power plant capacities and functions.).
This comes from the very first edition of Traveller in 1977. Then the jump drive was not dependent on the power plant in any way.

This was changed in LBB5 in 1979, so that the power plant needed at least the same potential as the jump drive.



The original Express Boat was (perhaps) possible in the original LBB2 ship design system.

The MgT2 Express Boat is about as close to the original as can be made in the MgT2 HG ship design system.
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby Condottiere » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:44 pm

In order to use the jump drive, the ship requires a number of Power points equal to ten percent of the hull’s total tonnage multiplied by the maximum jump number the drive is capable of.

Does not specify source.


Jump drives cannot be engaged with solar panels deployed.

Caveat.
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby Linwood » Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:27 am

I don't know if this is canon, but I've generally assumed that 90-95% of the energy expenditure goes to creating the jump bubble (or whatever field effect results in entry into jump space). The rest goes to maintaining the field during the time in jump space with perhaps a bit of a surge at the end to aid in translation back to normal space.
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby Reynard » Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:34 am

"A jump drive will have capacitors equal to 20% of its size in tons. Additional capacitors may be purchased."
There's your batteries. The jump capacitors take energy produced by a power plant, downloaded from Globe generators or fed over time by Collectors.

"The jump drive is powered by the battery, which is recharged during the normal refuelling operations."
So that means any ship with enough HEBs can also charge the jump that way.
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Re: Does the Scout come with weapons?

Postby Sigtrygg » Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:41 am

As is usual the misuse of terms leads to confusion.
1 - a capacitor is not a battery
1 - you do not 're-charge' a battery, you reverse the chemical change that generated electricity and lose some energy in the process.

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