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What is the salary for crew filling two position?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:54 pm
by snrdg121408
Hello all,

On the TML a question was asked about the salary for a crew member filling two positions in MgT 2e. So far my efforts have not found an answer. Can someone please point me to the book and page the information is found on?

In CT LBB 2 1977/1981 p. 16 I did find this bit of information "...and the individual draws salary equal to 75% of each position;..."

Re: What is the salary for crew filling two position?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:45 pm
by AnotherDilbert
Undefined.

We might use "Salary can vary but the values on the Crew Requirements table shows a monthly average for skill level 1 crew, with the presumption that +50% will be added for every skill level above this." (HG, p20)

Adding both skills would give a nice salary boost...

Re: What is the salary for crew filling two position?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:03 pm
by Garran
What are the two positions (and ship) in question? It'll depend a lot on the circumstances.

Re: What is the salary for crew filling two position?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:30 pm
by FreeTrav
Garran wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:03 pm
What are the two positions (and ship) in question? It'll depend a lot on the circumstances.
In the particular case asked about (I'm the original querent from the TML), one position was made up, the other varied - there was one pilot-plus, one engineer-plus, one gunner-plus, and three new-position-only. The ship is a somewhat uprated pinnace (not jump-capable). The question, however, would be applicable to pretty much any vessel, jump-capable or not, that is "player-character sized", which I interpret to be anything from roughly the subsidized liner down.

On the TML, it was pointed out that in some cases, using the CT rule cited above (which I had originally planned on using, without actually consciously realizing that that's where it came from) would result in the dual-assigned character making less than a single-assigned character in the higher-salaried position. That seemed Just Not Right to me, so I ended up modifying that rule: Use the greater of higher-plus-half-lower or three-quarters-plus-three-quarters. But if there is anything formally defining how to handle the situation in Mongoose 1 or 2, I'm still interested.

Re: What is the salary for crew filling two position?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:28 pm
by snrdg121408
Hello FreeTrav,
FreeTrav wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:30 pm
Garran wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:03 pm
What are the two positions (and ship) in question? It'll depend a lot on the circumstances.
In the particular case asked about (I'm the original querent from the TML), one position was made up, the other varied - there was one pilot-plus, one engineer-plus, one gunner-plus, and three new-position-only. The ship is a somewhat uprated pinnace (not jump-capable). The question, however, would be applicable to pretty much any vessel, jump-capable or not, that is "player-character sized", which I interpret to be anything from roughly the subsidized liner down.

On the TML, it was pointed out that in some cases, using the CT rule cited above (which I had originally planned on using, without actually consciously realizing that that's where it came from) would result in the dual-assigned character making less than a single-assigned character in the higher-salaried position. That seemed Just Not Right to me, so I ended up modifying that rule: Use the greater of higher-plus-half-lower or three-quarters-plus-three-quarters. But if there is anything formally defining how to handle the situation in Mongoose 1 or 2, I'm still interested.
I just thought about a solution while looking at this thread. The suggestion is for the primary position to get the full standard salary and the secondary position to get 50 or 75% of the salary.

Re: What is the salary for crew filling two position?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:35 pm
by FreeTrav
snrdg121408 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:28 pm
Hello FreeTrav,

I just thought about a solution while looking at this thread. The suggestion is for the primary position to get the full standard salary and the secondary position to get 50 or 75% of the salary.
That's more-or-less what I came up with - the full higher salary plus half of the lower, if that total is greater than three-quarters of each.

Re: What is the salary for crew filling two position?

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:12 pm
by Garran
FreeTrav wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:30 pm
In the particular case asked about (I'm the original querent from the TML), one position was made up, the other varied - there was one pilot-plus, one engineer-plus, one gunner-plus, and three new-position-only. The ship is a somewhat uprated pinnace (not jump-capable). The question, however, would be applicable to pretty much any vessel, jump-capable or not, that is "player-character sized", which I interpret to be anything from roughly the subsidized liner down.
The reason that I asked what the jobs were is that they don't always require a dedicated crewmember, particularly for small/tramp ships with limited crew sizes. In the case of the Free/Far Trader, for example, "Astrogator" is listed as a position, but you don't really need someone doing that job full-time, just someone who is capable of doing it even if their primary job is something else. For reasons of efficiency you probably don't want the Engineer to be doing it, but there's no reason why the Pilot/Medic/Steward couldn't, or the "Astrogator" actually have some other primary responsibility when not preparing for a jump.

A large military ship probably would keep someone on-duty as an Astrogator at all times, both because it can spare the manpower, and to ensure that there are constantly-updated jump plots ready to go as part of its contingency plans.

Re: What is the salary for crew filling two position?

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:51 pm
by phavoc
I think a PC might get a 50% bump in pay, at most, but no more than that. For those jobs that aren't used all the time (Pilot, Navigator, gunner) they could fill two slots in a perfect world where you would not need each. However navigators still need to plot courses in N-space to get to other places (any pilot should be able to figure out where the world is and get there if they emerge at 100D), and gunners may be needed right up to the point of jump if you are in combat.

There there is the time in jump that crew still need to perform duties on the ship. Jump doesn't make much of a difference for maintenance, watches, etc. All of that is being done every day. So a person filling two roles in that sense wouldn't be able to fill two full roles simultaneously. Those who have served in the merchant marine or navy should be able to explain why somebody would NOT want that kind of job for the long-term.

Re: What is the salary for crew filling two position?

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:07 pm
by Condottiere
Unless it's a shipping line corporation, salary negotiations are probably in order, determining exact duties and wages.

Or there's a Spacer Union.

Astrogation doesn't seem to require much actual time to calculate, probably the equivalent of a medical doctor diagnosticating; acquiring that institutional knowledge and how to apply it correctly probably requires a tad longer. You're paying for that, not for staring at some zodiac charts once a fortnight.

Secondary duties can be compensated for by how long you spend on them, and how arduous they are: steward gunners probably get a twenty percent bump.

Astrogator pilots likely a fifty percent bonus.

Re: What is the salary for crew filling two position?

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:08 pm
by Ursus Maior
In all honesty, for reasons of simplicity, I'd go with the Classic Traveller rule that a person doing two jobs receives 75 percent of both pay cheques. It's a hard-and-fast rule, certainly, but it works most of the time. Player characters and interesting NPCs are welcome to negotiate, of course.

Re: What is the salary for crew filling two position?

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:57 pm
by Linwood
I think it’s more likely to be similar to what Condottiere states. Large established shipping firms would likely have defined salary buckets. This might include salary boosts for higher skill levels or maybe bonuses for cross-training (Gunnery, Medic, and similar training could fall under that), advanced certificates, etc. Smaller lines may be less generous (YMMV in the real world). Free traders would likely be mostly negotiable wages unless a local government has mandated a wage scale.

If unions exist and have clout they could demand (and get?) higher wages. If they offer recertifications and advanced training as well they may provide more of a value prop to employers.

Keep in mind that higher wages add to overhead. If paying for greater skill allows a company to reduce staff it will look attractive to the finance guys. If it doesn’t - or if regulators require so many bodies regardless - a company might find it financially advantageous to adopt something like an up-and-out policy to move those more expensive employees out of the company. (Great way to explain why a veteran is suddenly scrambling to find a new job....).

Re: What is the salary for crew filling two position?

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:19 pm
by snrdg121408
Hello all,

Michael Z. Williamson has a series set in the Freehold of Grianne. In Book 1 Freehold military personnel receive a 5% increase in pay for each secondary skill they have.

Re: What is the salary for crew filling two position?

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:28 pm
by Condottiere
Let's assume in Five Kay, that the military issues certification that can accurately rate your skill set, and potential employers can make offers that reflect that and their own needs.

Barbarians and Belters might not have access to such certification.

Re: What is the salary for crew filling two position?

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:41 pm
by snrdg121408
Hi Condottiere,
Condottiere wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:28 pm
Let's assume in Five Kay, that the military issues certification that can accurately rate your skill set, and potential employers can make offers that reflect that and their own needs.

Barbarians and Belters might not have access to such certification.
In the book the main character Kendra Pacelli is from Earth where one has to have a certification to do just about everything thing. Kendra arrived in the Freehold and when applying for work just listed her degree in accounting and certifications during her military service on Earth. She discovered that in the Freehold any skills you had with or without certification should be listed. In Kendra's case she had learned machinist skills from her family's business. Prior to enlisting in the Freehold's military she had a job working in her city's park department using some of her machinist skills and learned additional skills in plumbing, electrical, and landscaping. After enlisting and reporting to her unit her CO had her take a machinist test that she passed and was added to her service jacket. Prior to enlisting she also became a consultant on Earth Culture for a specific area of North America without having to get a certification or license.

Tom Rux