HG 2e Crew questions

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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby snrdg121408 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:58 pm

Hi AndrewW,
AndrewW wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:46 am
snrdg121408 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:19 pm
I do not agree that the Engineers who are specialists trained in the operation of the power plant, MD, and JD are also responsible for life support.
Ones with a specialty in Power,M-drive or J-drive no, it is a separate specialty.
Traveller Core Rulebook page: 65 wrote:Life Support: Covers oxygen generators, heating and lighting and other necessary life support systems.
Safely Reducing Power to Life Support to Prolong a Ship’s Battery Life: Average (8+) Engineer (life support) check (1D minutes, EDU).
Thank you for the link to CRB on life support and to be honest I have forgotten to cross check with the CRB for crew positions skills.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby snrdg121408 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:19 pm

A snowy morning from the Pacific Northwest Condottiere,
Condottiere wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:28 pm
Life support maintenance doesn't require engineering certification, at least not at technological level twelve.

This is basically plumbing and keeping an eye on the filters.

Possibly some knowledge of chemistry and ideal air mixtures.

Unless, they're also responsible for artificial gravity and inertial compensators.
Here is the information about Engineers and Mechanics:

CRB 2e pages 64/PDF page 65
Engineer
The Engineer skill is used to operate and maintain spacecraft and advanced vehicles. Engineer can be used to make repairs on damaged systems on spacecraft and advanced vehicles. For repairs on simpler machines and systems, use the Mechanic skill.

SPECIALITIES
● M-drive: Maintaining and operating a spacecraft’s manoeuvre drive, as well as its artificial gravity. Overcharging a Thruster Plate to Increase a Ship’s Estimating a Ship’s Tonnage From its Observed Performance: Average (8+) Engineer (m-drive) check (1D x 10 seconds, INT).
● J-drive: Maintaining and operating a spacecraft’s Jump drive. Making a Jump: Easy (4+) Engineer (j-drive) check (1D x 10 minutes, EDU).
● Life Support: Covers oxygen generators, heating and lighting and other necessary life support systems. Safely Reducing Power to Life Support to Prolong a Ship’s Battery Life: Average (8+) Engineer (life support) check (1D minutes, EDU).
● Power: Maintaining and operating a spacecraft’s power plant. Monitoring an Enemy ship's Power Output to Determine its Capabilities: Difficult (10+) Engineer (power) check (1D minutes, INT).

CRB 2e page 67/PDF page 68
Mechanic
The Mechanic skill allows a Traveller to maintain and repair most equipment – some advanced equipment and spacecraft components require the Engineer skill. Unlike the narrower and more focussed Engineer or Science skills, Mechanic does not allow a Traveller to build new devices or alter existing ones – it is purely for repairs and maintenance but covers all types of equipment. Repairing a Damaged System in the Field: Average (8+) Mechanic check (1D minutes, INT or EDU).

Based on the CRB skill descriptions I think that the maintenance crew can perform maintenance and minor repairs on life support, but when things go horribly wrong the Engineers have to be called in.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby snrdg121408 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:41 pm

Hello again all,

In the HG 2e Bay section of Chapter 2 page 27/PDF page 28 on the Bay Hardpoints table the fourth column has the header title of Crew. Per the Table a small bay requires a crew of 1, medium bays requires a crew of 2 and large bays require a crew of 4.

The Crew Requirements table HG 2e page 21/PDF page 22 indicates the a commercial ship requires 1 gunner/crew per turret, bay, or screen and a military vessel requires 2 per turret, bay, or screen and spinal mounts is 1 per 100 tons of spinal mount.

Which bay crew requirement is used when determining the bay gunner/crew?

Update 3/16/2020 added complete information for Crew Requirements from HG 2e page 21/PDF page 22.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby snrdg121408 » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:55 pm

Hi AnotherDilbert,

The "...highly simplified view is that the Engineering Department is responsible for maintaining and repairing all the ship's equipment. That probably means they need a mix of Engineering, Mechanics, and Electronics. " is not true based on the Engineer skill details on CRB 2e page 65/PDF page 66.

Then under the skill of CRB 2e page 64/PDF page 65
Electronics
This skill is used to operate electronic devices such as computers and ship-board systems. Higher levels represent the ability to repair and create electronic devices and systems. There are several specialities.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby Condottiere » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:03 pm

It's become an interwoven mixture of electronics and mechanics, with the bias towards removing any moving parts.

For fortnighly excursions within civilized space, it's probably cheaper to run diagnostics at the starport, and immediately replace suspect equipment, than keep technicians onboard, beyond the minimum to supervise the equipment.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby snrdg121408 » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:01 pm

Howdy Condottiere,
Condottiere wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:03 pm
It's become an interwoven mixture of electronics and mechanics, with the bias towards removing any moving parts.

For fortnighly excursions within civilized space, it's probably cheaper to run diagnostics at the starport, and immediately replace suspect equipment, than keep technicians onboard, beyond the minimum to supervise the equipment.
I am a retired Submarine Sonar Technician which allowed me to operate, maintain, and repair all of my equipment with the exception of the hydrophones and transducers. I think that in MgT I would have Electronics (sensors) with a skill of at least 1.

When I was on the boats we did most of are own work with the exception of repairing cables that went from the equipment to the hull fittings out to the transducers and hydrophones. The Submarine Support Facility or the Submarine Tender if they did not have the cables would remove the plug and shot a new one. When we had a serious system failure or a big upgrade tech reps came down to do the work or supervise the crew to do the work. When the tech reps came down and did the work that was a cost from the ship's budget.

Merchant ships pulling into a port will have to pay extra for repairs and parts if the crew cannot figure away to fix the system. I recently saw a show that documented a maritime company that stripped down a decommissioned USN sub rescue ship and then towed her to become an artificial reef for diving excursions. Their tug had a failure in the propulsion system that they could not fix and had to buy a new part, which they had to modify to work.

What happens when the system or systems fails between starports?

When the Engineers run a diagnostic on ship's maneuver drive after leaving the starport there is system fault that deadlines the drive. The Engineers have to hope they can pull the part/parts from supply or be able to make something works.

Combat is going to damage systems which will call for repairs which a particularly lousy roll results in the GM and crew having to fix the system or build something that hopefully works.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby Condottiere » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:45 pm

There's a slight difference between commercial ships cutting corners, and warships having to be able to keep functioning under all conditions while on patrol.

Having said that, it was tried with the Littoral Combat Ship concept, and I believe they ended up with almost permanently stationed civilian contractors onboard, trying to keep everything working.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby snrdg121408 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:52 pm

Hi again Condottiere
Condottiere wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:45 pm
There's a slight difference between commercial ships cutting corners, and warships having to be able to keep functioning under all conditions while on patrol.

Having said that, it was tried with the Littoral Combat Ship concept, and I believe they ended up with almost permanently stationed civilian contractors onboard, trying to keep everything working.
I think I mentioned that I watched a documentary on either TLC, Discovery, or National Geographic concerning a commercial salvage and towing company that hauled a stripped down decommissioned Submarine Rescue ship from the east coast down to the islands in the Caribbean. The tug they used suffered a propulsion system breakdown. The crew tried to fix the problem, unfortunately the broken part was beyond repair so they had to order a new part. The crew discovered that the new part did not fit properly which required them to machine the new part to fit.

There is a show titled "Disasters At Sea" that covered sinking of ships at sea. More than one of the episodes aired showed the results of commercial ships cutting corners. On one ship that sank the owners failed to do proper maintenance on the cargo hatches and deck. The cargo hatches and deck had worn through and what patches that the company used was the wrong material. The USCG also had a hand in the disaster.

Another episode was about a fishing boat that had been its propulsion system improperly modified. The struts holding the propeller shaft had been welded to the hull plating instead of to the ship's structure. The result was that the welds had to be reinforced several times before the disaster that sank the boat. Another contributing factor was that the water tight hatches where tied open and many of them due to very little or no maintenance would not have sealed properly anyway.

I retired from the USN in 1995 and everything I know about the Littoral Combat Ship has been from documentaries shown on stations like TLC, Discovery, National Geographic, etc. If the USN is contracting to have civilians onboard that is at an extra cost.

One of the benefits of Traveller is that I've researched a lot of different topics. My research into the civilian/commercial side suggests that civilian/commercial operations are more willing to forgo bring in personnel from outside to fix broken equipment of to replace an entire suspect system.

Thank you for the reply.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby snrdg121408 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:59 pm

Hello all,

Since I have not received any feedback about bay crew/gunner requirements I asked about earlier here is what I will be using.

Commercial: 1 gunner per turret, 1 gunner per small bay, 2 gunners per medium bay, 4 gunners per large bay, and 1 gunner per screen

Military: 2 gunner per turret, 1 gunner per small bay, 2 gunners per medium bay, 4 gunners per large bay, 2 gunners per screen, and 1 gunner per 100 tons of spinal weapon.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby Condottiere » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:40 am

One obvious way of cutting corners, besides ordering ships from Chinese yards, and previously Korean, is by registering the ships under flags of convenience, whose host nations neither charge a great deal for the privilege, have rigid safety standards, nor bother to enforce those they have.

For a Five Kay starship, the primary concerns would have to be intact hull, life support, power generation, and propulsion.

Technology level nine makes the hull self sealing, though I suspect glue and a steel cap would work as well.

Life support has to be dead simple by this time.

Power generation requires a functioning fusion reactor, be default - what could go wrong in a fortnight between inspections?

The manoeuvre drive either works or it doesn't: it would be pretty clear as to which if the spacecraft can't move out of it's cradle.

The tricky part is the jump drive, since none of us actually know how it works, but I'd say all it needs is certification for the next jump; for larger drives, an engineer who ramps it up to the necessary level to execute a jump and understands when the fecal matter is revving itself up to strike the ventilator, when he would shut it down.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby snrdg121408 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:41 pm

Hello again Condottiere,
Condottiere wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:40 am
One obvious way of cutting corners, besides ordering ships from Chinese yards, and previously Korean, is by registering the ships under flags of convenience, whose host nations neither charge a great deal for the privilege, have rigid safety standards, nor bother to enforce those they have.
You are correct that cutting corners in your comment happens rather frequently. Unfortunately, when things go wrong because of cutting there are causalities from minor injuries to death of the crew and passengers. The worst case is the ship sinks with all souls onboard.
For a Five Kay starship, the primary concerns would have to be intact hull, life support, power generation, and propulsion.
I agree with the exception of the need for coffee or the skipper's favorite drink and possibly the future equivalent of toilet paper.
Technology level nine makes the hull self sealing, though I suspect glue and a steel cap would work as well.
I suspect that the glue would be used as a quick fix followed by some sort of welding at some point.
Life support has to be dead simple by this time.
Life support still needs to move air, water, and waste all of the ducting and pipes are all failure points. Even the simplest life support system is subject to failing.
Power generation requires a functioning fusion reactor, be default - what could go wrong in a fortnight between inspections?
Gremlins have a tendency to pop-up between inspection periods. One of the boats working out of Guam following inspected the reactor per the maintenance requirements that indicated everything was okay and the shut the plant down. Preparing to get underway two days later they could not get the reactor to stay online.

The boat I was on scrammed unexpectedly during one patrol shortly after a maintenance inspection.
The manoeuvre drive either works or it doesn't: it would be pretty clear as to which if the spacecraft can't move out of it's cradle.
A MD with a maximum acceleration of 5G can only do 0.5G. The MD is working but not a full potential which did happen in one game I played way back when. The GM was truly evil that session.
The tricky part is the jump drive, since none of us actually know how it works, but I'd say all it needs is certification for the next jump; for larger drives, an engineer who ramps it up to the necessary level to execute a jump and understands when the fecal matter is revving itself up to strike the ventilator, when he would shut it down.
In some source, which I cannot dig up now, mentioned that the computer was controlling the jump and in theory the computer should be able to react faster the a living body. But I would prefer the living body with years of experience to be faster than the computer when the fecal does get spread around.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby phavoc » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:51 pm

snrdg121408 wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:59 pm
Hello all,

Since I have not received any feedback about bay crew/gunner requirements I asked about earlier here is what I will be using.

Commercial: 1 gunner per turret, 1 gunner per small bay, 2 gunners per medium bay, 4 gunners per large bay, and 1 gunner per screen

Military: 2 gunner per turret, 1 gunner per small bay, 2 gunners per medium bay, 4 gunners per large bay, 2 gunners per screen, and 1 gunner per 100 tons of spinal weapon.
I was Army, but the principle of manning the equipment/weapons remains the same, so whatever is required to fully man all weapons and stations during combat is your basic crew complement. Manning things like auxillary control, damage control and other things would be considered basic crewing.

For larger ships people like mechanics and machinists would not necessarily have a weapons mount to crew. They would be the ones who handle the damage control issues and such. For your active gunners you really wouldn't need that in a modern combat ship. They aren't physically aiming the turrets or loading the missile tubes. But they do need to be on-mount in case of a problem.

The number of actual gunners for something as large as a spinal mount would be relatively small. What you would want is mechanics and engineers to fix the widgets when they didn't work. Pushing the button to fire requires only a few people (one to push, half a dozen to order the rating to push the button).
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby snrdg121408 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:03 pm

Howdy phavoc,
phavoc wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:51 pm
snrdg121408 wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:59 pm
Hello all,

Since I have not received any feedback about bay crew/gunner requirements I asked about earlier here is what I will be using.

Commercial: 1 gunner per turret, 1 gunner per small bay, 2 gunners per medium bay, 4 gunners per large bay, and 1 gunner per screen

Military: 2 gunner per turret, 1 gunner per small bay, 2 gunners per medium bay, 4 gunners per large bay, 2 gunners per screen, and 1 gunner per 100 tons of spinal weapon.
I was Army, but the principle of manning the equipment/weapons remains the same, so whatever is required to fully man all weapons and stations during combat is your basic crew complement. Manning things like auxillary control, damage control and other things would be considered basic crewing.


Off topic: Did you ever get stationed at Fort Lewis, Washington which is now Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Washington? (The state not DC)

The ship's complement is everyone onboard the vessel. The Marines onboard their amphibious ships are part of the ships complement. The ship's company or crew are all the bodies needed to operate, maintain, and repair the ship and its equipment. The ship's company/crew handle damage control by drawing from the bodies that are not on watch during casualties and at battle stations.
For larger ships people like mechanics and machinists would not necessarily have a weapons mount to crew. They would be the ones who handle the damage control issues and such. For your active gunners you really wouldn't need that in a modern combat ship. They aren't physically aiming the turrets or loading the missile tubes. But they do need to be on-mount in case of a problem.
Just about everyone not directly involved with weapons or the systems used to track and designate targets are on damage control. Some of the bodies will be stationed at critical points with other stationed on the mess decks to be routed where they are needed.
The number of actual gunners for something as large as a spinal mount would be relatively small. What you would want is mechanics and engineers to fix the widgets when they didn't work. Pushing the button to fire requires only a few people (one to push, half a dozen to order the rating to push the button).
A Mk 4 5-inch 54/62 caliber gun mount has a crew of six which are stationed below deck and not in the turret. They are responsible for the operation, maintenance, and repair of the gun. If a mechanical part breaks that is not in stock they can and do get help from the departments/divisions that have the people that can machine the part.

Scaling up a spinal weapon has the bodies to operate, maintain, and repair the systems.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby Condottiere » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:35 am

1. Commercial shipping is different from military concerns, in that you plan for the routine, rather than the exception, so if you can offboard maintenance and maintenance personnel, you will, or better, outsource it.

2. Gunner requirements in Traveller are for the operation of the weapon systems in combat; arguably, you can train the gunners to maintain and repair weapon systems during off peak hours, otherwise, you're going to need another subdivision, or more if they have to specialize for each weapon system.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby snrdg121408 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:35 pm

Hello Condottiere,
Condottiere wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:35 am
1. Commercial shipping is different from military concerns, in that you plan for the routine, rather than the exception, so if you can offboard maintenance and maintenance personnel, you will, or better, outsource it.
I've watched a few documentaries on non-military ships as far as I saw the crew did their own maintenance and repairs especially when they where not in port. Out-sourcing cost money which hits the bottom line.
2. Gunner requirements in Traveller are for the operation of the weapon systems in combat; arguably, you can train the gunners to maintain and repair weapon systems during off peak hours, otherwise, you're going to need another subdivision, or more if they have to specialize for each weapon system.
My understanding is different since I had the information pounded into my memory during boot campthat the personnel manning the weapons did more than pull the trigger, lanyard, or push the button.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby phavoc » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:11 am

snrdg121408 wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:03 pm
Howdy phavoc,

Off topic: Did you ever get stationed at Fort Lewis, Washington which is now Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Washington? (The state not DC)

The ship's complement is everyone onboard the vessel. The Marines onboard their amphibious ships are part of the ships complement. The ship's company or crew are all the bodies needed to operate, maintain, and repair the ship and its equipment. The ship's company/crew handle damage control by drawing from the bodies that are not on watch during casualties and at battle stations.
For larger ships people like mechanics and machinists would not necessarily have a weapons mount to crew. They would be the ones who handle the damage control issues and such. For your active gunners you really wouldn't need that in a modern combat ship. They aren't physically aiming the turrets or loading the missile tubes. But they do need to be on-mount in case of a problem.
Just about everyone not directly involved with weapons or the systems used to track and designate targets are on damage control. Some of the bodies will be stationed at critical points with other stationed on the mess decks to be routed where they are needed.
The number of actual gunners for something as large as a spinal mount would be relatively small. What you would want is mechanics and engineers to fix the widgets when they didn't work. Pushing the button to fire requires only a few people (one to push, half a dozen to order the rating to push the button).
A Mk 4 5-inch 54/62 caliber gun mount has a crew of six which are stationed below deck and not in the turret. They are responsible for the operation, maintenance, and repair of the gun. If a mechanical part breaks that is not in stock they can and do get help from the departments/divisions that have the people that can machine the part.

Scaling up a spinal weapon has the bodies to operate, maintain, and repair the systems.
Nope, never made it that far west. Ft. Swill, Germany (Graf) and Ft. Hood.

For individual weapons we (Army crew) were responsible for basic maintenance. We did things like hydraulic maintenance, track pads, stuff like that. If the launcher, engine, gyroscope, or firing electronics failed we had to call specialized people who had the expertise and the spare parts. We could have probably done some of the work, but for the most part it was easier to have specialists. Each of our firing platoons had a dedicated mechanic for three launchers, and our HQ platoon had the regular mechanics and POL teams. The more specialized mechanics were congregated in different units.

Ships, of course, being away for port have to carry more of their own people. But navy ships rely a lot on port personnel for heavy maintenance. Used to be there were destroyer and submarine tenders who also fulfilled the same mission for those ships away from port. Larger combatants usually have to return to port because most major damage requires equipment that is not very portable.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby snrdg121408 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:51 am

Howdy phavoc,
phavoc wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:11 am

Nope, never made it that far west. Ft. Swill, Germany (Graf) and Ft. Hood.
Thank you for your service and the reply about no getting to the Pacific Northwest.
For individual weapons we (Army crew) were responsible for basic maintenance. We did things like hydraulic maintenance, track pads, stuff like that. If the launcher, engine, gyroscope, or firing electronics failed we had to call specialized people who had the expertise and the spare parts. We could have probably done some of the work, but for the most part it was easier to have specialists. Each of our firing platoons had a dedicated mechanic for three launchers, and our HQ platoon had the regular mechanics and POL teams. The more specialized mechanics were congregated in different units.
Thank you for confirming the information I've dug up talking with the soldiers on the Fort on how the weapons were maintained.
Ships, of course, being away for port have to carry more of their own people. But navy ships rely a lot on port personnel for heavy maintenance. Used to be there were destroyer and submarine tenders who also fulfilled the same mission for those ships away from port. Larger combatants usually have to return to port because most major damage requires equipment that is not very portable.
Depends on what you call heavy maintenance. Going for an overhaul you are partially correct that there is a lot of support facility personnel involved but the crew is also working. Doing a refit the crew does most of the work with, depending on the job, support facility personnel. One of my boat's sonar systems got upgraded and the company that made the system sent out tech reps to oversee the upgrade with the support of the boat's sonar personnel and personnel from the support facility.

Major damage that the crew can not repair with the equipment and parts onboard is the main reason the ship returns to port not because the required equipment is not very portable. If the repairs a really needed the equipment will be moved or some bright naval engineer will figure out way to get the job done.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby Condottiere » Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:37 am

Routine maintenance is running diagnostics, making sure that the stuff is in working condition, and detecting anomalies and indications of future faults.

Cruises are possibly four months or more, and I'll assume that homeports certify the stuff will continue to work at least until a warship is scheduled to return, though crew will be trained and spares carried for equipment they could repair on their own, should the need arise.

Then you have commercial shipping, who'll cost account it to figure out the minimum cost for getting the maximum return, and if that includes just using duct tape to hold the ship together until it reaches port with it's cargo.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby snrdg121408 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:39 pm

Hi Condottiere,
Condottiere wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:37 am
Routine maintenance is running diagnostics, making sure that the stuff is in working condition, and detecting anomalies and indications of future faults.

Cruises are possibly four months or more, and I'll assume that homeports certify the stuff will continue to work at least until a warship is scheduled to return, though crew will be trained and spares carried for equipment they could repair on their own, should the need arise.
I am very familiar with routine maintenance practices since the USN has the 3M system, which IIRC stands for Material Management and Maintenance. The system has a Preventative Maintenance System that, when I was in, consisted of pamphlet sized documents that could be one or two pages to a booklet that listed the steps on how to run the diagnostics.

Preventative maintenance (PM) was conducted by the crew both in port and underway per a schedule which covered daily, weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, quarterly, semi-annually, and annually. Any PM step that failed resulted in following a sub-routine that would point to the fault so repairs or re-calibrations would put the equipment back online.

The subs I was on had a limited number of spare parts for a variety of the equipment onboard. We did not have parts to repair the entire turbine's biggest parts, but there were a certain, in theory, onboard spares to fix some of the smaller bits. Then we had a small machine shop and trained personnel that could make gears of a certain size if none were in stock. The support facility, a tender or shore installation, would be called upon if the boat did not have the part or could not manufacture it onboard.

When all efforts to make a repair failed the vendor/manufacturer is called in.

[/quote]Then you have commercial shipping, who'll cost account it to figure out the minimum cost for getting the maximum return, and if that includes just using duct tape to hold the ship together until it reaches port with it's cargo.
[/quote]

I agree that commercial shipping and military vessels will use duct tape to make temporary repairs until pulling into port if that is the only way to keep something running.

If you can try to watch Disasters At Sea to see what happens when commercial shipping cuts corners on maintenance.
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Re: HG 2e Crew questions

Postby Condottiere » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:54 am

Risk tends to work on statistics, which is where commercial departs from military.

Routine voyages don't have anything catastrophic happening to them, and if it does, it's usually calculated in on how preventative measures are executed in terms of cost effectiveness, as well the cost of consequences, when it does happen. It's the reason corporations are more willing to pay fines, than letting individual executives face actual incarceration, so that future decision makers understand that there are no consequences to themselves for acting for the maximum benefit of the corporation, outside of some sacrificial lower rung lambs.

The military knows that during hostilities, the enemy will actively attempt to incapacitate ship systems, so keeping them online during hostilities as long as possible is a high priority.

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