Updated High Guard Ships

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Old School
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 952
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:41 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby Old School » Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:01 pm

That argument applies to most of the MgT2 Core and High Guard ships, if not all of them. They are not anything close to optimized for the MgT2 ruleset. They are attempts at faithful re-creations of the CT ships.
Geir
Mongoose
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby Geir » Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:58 pm

Old School wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:01 pm
That argument applies to most of the MgT2 Core and High Guard ships, if not all of them. They are not anything close to optimized for the MgT2 ruleset. They are attempts at faithful re-creations of the CT ships.
Understood. And that's where the dissonance comes in. I understand the point, but even there it's not always complete. For instance, the LBB Yacht had enough fuel for 2 jump-1. The basic issue is that the old ships from 40+ years ago were they way they were because of the rules. The new ships that try to match them are that way in spite of the rules. Don't get me wrong, I like the current Highguard rules for the most part so changing them is not the best answer, but at some point, I think that sensible, even if not optimal, design changes should get made to match the current rule set. That's probably why, with some exceptions (Buccaneer) the designs in the Ships of the Reach make more sense. No legacy chains.

I suspect, no matter what Andrew does, somebody will complain, because having it both ways is almost impossible. As I think Matt said earlier, it's a big universe out there. Maybe the focus should be on building new ship designs, not the sixth or tenth iteration of the same ship. Less arguments that way.
Geir Lanesskog
www.geir.org
NOLATrav
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 302
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:42 pm

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby NOLATrav » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:15 pm

Geir wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:58 pm
Maybe the focus should be on building new ship designs, not the sixth or tenth iteration of the same ship.
This.

Way too much fun creating fresh designs versus fixing old ones.
Baldo
Mongoose
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:31 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby Baldo » Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:15 pm

Please rewrite the monthly Maintenance Costs for the Launch, the Pebble, the Ship's Boat, the Slow Boat, the Pinnace, the Passenger Shuttle, the Serpent-class Scout and the Empress Marava trader: too many zeros here! :lol:
AndrewW
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4332
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:57 pm

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby AndrewW » Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:02 pm

Baldo wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:15 pm
Please rewrite the monthly Maintenance Costs for the Launch, the Pebble, the Ship's Boat, the Slow Boat, the Pinnace, the Passenger Shuttle, the Serpent-class Scout and the Empress Marava trader: too many zeros here! :lol:
Removed excess zero's.
Old School
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 952
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:41 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby Old School » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:52 pm

Geir wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:58 pm
Old School wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:01 pm
That argument applies to most of the MgT2 Core and High Guard ships, if not all of them. They are not anything close to optimized for the MgT2 ruleset. They are attempts at faithful re-creations of the CT ships.
Understood. And that's where the dissonance comes in. I understand the point, but even there it's not always complete. For instance, the LBB Yacht had enough fuel for 2 jump-1. The basic issue is that the old ships from 40+ years ago were they way they were because of the rules. The new ships that try to match them are that way in spite of the rules. Don't get me wrong, I like the current Highguard rules for the most part so changing them is not the best answer, but at some point, I think that sensible, even if not optimal, design changes should get made to match the current rule set. That's probably why, with some exceptions (Buccaneer) the designs in the Ships of the Reach make more sense. No legacy chains.

I suspect, no matter what Andrew does, somebody will complain, because having it both ways is almost impossible. As I think Matt said earlier, it's a big universe out there. Maybe the focus should be on building new ship designs, not the sixth or tenth iteration of the same ship. Less arguments that way.
Of course. I’m not arguing with you. I’m agreeing with you.

If I use any 2nd highguard ships, I check the design for obvious areas of improvement by current rules and adjust accordingly.
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4140
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:52 am

Plankwell:

By the stats it has two sensor systems, but only one Distributed Array. Not noted in the text.

Is has Jump Control/2, despite having no non-Core computer.



Kokirrak:

Cost of 5800 Dt modular space is not the same as tonnage, should be MCr 852.6

By the stats it has two sensor systems, but only one Distributed Array. Not noted in the text.

A small Fusion Bay costs MCr 8, hence 50 bays cost MCr 400, not 800.
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4140
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:10 pm

Azhanti:

A Particle 2D spinal is MCr 1000 per D, so the spinal should cost MCr 2200, not 1100 (with TL mod).
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4140
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:58 pm

Serpent:

2 Dt power plant fuel is 8 weeks endurance, not 20 weeks.



Free Trader, Type A

Low Berths take 2 Power, not 1.

Power requirement lists Loading Belt, but the ship has no Loading Belt.



Safari Ship:

Cost of Launch is off, should be MCr 2.367.

Effective size of Multi-Environment Space is not noted.

At 1 Dt per 20 Dt, two 7.6 Dt Multi-Environment Spaces should use about 0.8 Dt equipment?

Cost of ATV?
Last edited by AnotherDilbert on Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4140
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:18 pm

System Defence Boat

Sensor includes size and cost of Countermeasures, but Countermeasures cost is added again.



Yacht

Cost is not discounted for standard design?



Rock

Planetoid configuration has an armour and Hull bonus. Total armour should be 6 and Hull 150.
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4140
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:02 pm

Gazelle

Cost of gig?



System Defence Boat – 400 tons

Cost of M-drive & P-plant? Tech stage Budget not noted.
AndrewW
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4332
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:57 pm

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby AndrewW » Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:45 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:52 am
Plankwell:
By the stats it has two sensor systems, but only one Distributed Array. Not noted in the text.
That is why only Advanced has an x2 indicating two of that system, but nothing else does.
AnotherDilbert wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:52 am
Is has Jump Control/2, despite having no non-Core computer.
Not sure where that came from, leftover from something else is my guess (especially considering it would need Jump Control/4 if it didn't have a core computer.
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4140
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:30 pm

Annic Nova

Bridge costs should be based on hull rounded up to the next hundred Dt, so 600 Dt and MCr 3 & MCr 1.5?

Cost not discounted for standard, not noted.
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4140
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:19 am

AndrewW wrote: That is why only Advanced has an x2 indicating two of that system, but nothing else does.
The Tigress has the same notation, but has three Arrays for the three sensors.


Tigress, three arrays for three sensor systems:
Image

Plankwell & Kokirrak, one array for two sensor systems:
Image

It gets a bit confusing?
AndrewW
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4332
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:57 pm

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby AndrewW » Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:37 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:19 am
AndrewW wrote: That is why only Advanced has an x2 indicating two of that system, but nothing else does.
The Tigress has the same notation, but has three Arrays for the three sensors.

Can add it in for the Tigress.
AndrewW
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4332
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:57 pm

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby AndrewW » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:57 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:52 am
Kokirrak:

Cost of 5800 Dt modular space is not the same as tonnage, should be MCr 852.6
Nope it isn't, it was calculating based on hull size instead of cost for some reason, but I'm getting MCr 435.
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4140
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:12 pm

AndrewW wrote:
AnotherDilbert wrote: Kokirrak:

Cost of 5800 Dt modular space is not the same as tonnage, should be MCr 852.6
Nope it isn't, it was calculating based on hull size instead of cost for some reason, but I'm getting MCr 435.
Agreed, MCr 435.

For some reason my spreadsheet based modular cost on both hull and armour cost. I have no idea if that is something that was discussed during beta, or just my own house rule... I might have considered the armour part of the hull?
AndrewW
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4332
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:57 pm

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby AndrewW » Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:21 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:12 pm
Agreed, MCr 435.

For some reason my spreadsheet based modular cost on both hull and armour cost. I have no idea if that is something that was discussed during beta, or just my own house rule... I might have considered the armour part of the hull?
Reinforced Hull counts, but armour doesn't as far as other costs go.
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4140
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:00 pm

Spreadsheet updated with this and other bugs found in this thread:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tidv4xqelrw2b ... .xlsx?dl=1
Baldo
Mongoose
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:31 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Updated High Guard Ships

Postby Baldo » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:33 pm

AndrewW wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:02 pm
Baldo wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:15 pm
Please rewrite the monthly Maintenance Costs for the Launch, the Pebble, the Ship's Boat, the Slow Boat, the Pinnace, the Passenger Shuttle, the Serpent-class Scout and the Empress Marava trader: too many zeros here! :lol:
Removed excess zero's.
Hmm, I suck at math, and if the Maintenance Costs of the Pebble, the Serpent Class Scout and the Empress Marava Trader are 0.000562875, 0.0034684 and 0.0045111 for real, my head will explode very soon :wink: ...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: heron61, NOLATrav and 9 guests