What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Moppy
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1046
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:42 pm

What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby Moppy » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:25 am

I cannot find this situation covered in CT or Mongoose,
AndrewW
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4268
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:57 pm

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby AndrewW » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:03 am

Nobody has tried it.

One theory is that if someone did the universe would end instantly and nobody would be aware it was tried.
Moppy
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1046
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:42 pm

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby Moppy » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:18 am

Apparently in the new T5 campaign which I do not have Regina is TL 17 and black globes are common in the military. So someone should find out before the admiral’s pilot bumps the launch when docking and the automatic defence screen comes on.
Reynard
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3446
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:03 pm

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby Reynard » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:32 am

Some reason my mind imagined they act as like charge fields that become increasingly repulsive forcing such fields away.
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 2935
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:42 am

Moppy wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:25 am
I cannot find this situation covered in CT or Mongoose,
They are very rare to have even one of them. But they do pass through each other just fine. Don't let them touch any ships though.
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3934
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:00 am

Moppy wrote: What happens if 2 black globes touch?
It is covered in T5 (B2 pp182-3), basically:

Collisions between Globe and Globe or matter is inelastic (no rebound). The kinetic energy is absorbed by the Globe.

If they are turned on so that they intersect the Globes have no effect in the intersecting volume, at least if one Globe is within the other.
Moppy
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1046
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:42 pm

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby Moppy » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:58 am

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:00 am
Moppy wrote: What happens if 2 black globes touch?
It is covered in T5 (B2 pp182-3), basically:

Collisions between Globe and Globe or matter is inelastic (no rebound). The kinetic energy is absorbed by the Globe.

If they are turned on so that they intersect the Globes have no effect in the intersecting volume, at least if one Globe is within the other.
Edit: Actually let me change this. The globes are hollow. The shell can be projected at a distance and does not touch the generator. No special interactions occur unless the shells physically touch, at which point their kinetic energy is absorbed. A globe can be projected within the protected area of another globe. Is this correct?
Last edited by Moppy on Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Condottiere
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 7469
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby Condottiere » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:16 am

The Universe reboots when two Black Globes intersect.

Seriously, though, when active, both Black Globes are sucking energy, and since there's nothing to suck, there's no interaction.

However, this would alter if one or both of the Black Globes brush across the other's activated Black Globe generator, and probably the pumped up capacitors.

The next instance would be if one or both Black Globes are flickering.
Linwood
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 581
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:41 am

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby Linwood » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:30 am

Different effects with White Globes?
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3934
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:10 pm

Linwood wrote: Different effects with White Globes?
No, it's the same, except the absorbed energy is radiated away instead of stored.
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3934
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:26 pm

Moppy wrote: The globes are hollow.
Yes, the effect is the surface of a sphere.

Moppy wrote: The shell can be projected at a distance and does not touch the generator.
Yes, the globe is a sphere centered on the generator.

Moppy wrote: No special interactions occur unless the shells physically touch, at which point their kinetic energy is absorbed.
Yes, if they are separated by distance.

Moppy wrote: A globe can be projected within the protected area of another globe.
Yes.

T5, B2 p183 wrote: Globes Within Globes. A smaller globe may be established within a larger globe. Although their barriers may intersect, neither produces an effect within the other.
I take this to mean that the surface intersected by another globe does not absorb energy, even if one bubble is not centered inside the other.

If one globe is completely within another globe, it has no effect.
Moppy
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1046
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:42 pm

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby Moppy » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:09 pm

So in theory if we had a "black globe on a stick" we could poke it through another black globe and communicate by poking in a pattern.

They probably also have some morse code pattern that they can send by throwing rocks, to tell the operator it's safe to shut down.

Depending on what happens if a generator passes through vs being already inside, you might be able to send physical objects across a globe by englobing them?

What is the interaction of black globe and stasis?
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3934
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:30 pm

Moppy wrote: So in theory if we had a "black globe on a stick" we could poke it through another black globe and communicate by poking in a pattern.
Colliding globes stop dead in an inelastic collision.

If we can get close, and then start an intersecting globe, we could presumably open a hole in the surface.

Moppy wrote: They probably also have some morse code pattern that they can send by throwing rocks, to tell the operator it's safe to shut down.
Incoming energy is absorbed and the absorption can be detected, so a simple modulated comm-laser works fine.

Moppy wrote: What is the interaction of black globe and stasis?
Stasis globes have specific note that they can't be disturbed or interrupted from the outside.
Moppy
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1046
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:42 pm

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby Moppy » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:34 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:30 pm
Stasis globes have specific note that they can't be disturbed or interrupted from the outside.
A stasis field this would pass through a black globe without being affected therefore.

I assume the globe has nothing to absorb, or something infinite it can't absorb? I am guessing nothing, but then that means part of the globe field is missing. (Assuming the generator itself is positioned to not affected by the stasis).

Lasers vs dune shields sounds more logical the more I think about this. :-0

https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Shield
A shield was produced by a Holtzman generator ... Shields can be calibrated to permit the passage of matter below given speeds. This is vital in personal defense shields, as one would suffocate within a shield that did not admit atmospheric gasses. Depending on the shield's setting, the object's speed while passing through the shield would range from six to nine centimeters per second ... However, if a lasgun beam hit a Holtzman field, it would result in sub-atomic fusion and a nuclear explosion. The center of this blast was determined by random chance; sometimes it would originate within the shield, sometimes within the laser weapon, sometimes both.
Moppy
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1046
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:42 pm

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby Moppy » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:57 pm

Also come to think of it, I don't understand why you can't maneuver with a black globe up

If it was activated on a planet, the generator would soon overload from the rock underneath it, but the user could walk on the surface inside the globe shell and carry the globe.

If you used a rocket engine on a space craft, you should also be able to maneuver inside the globe, and you're carrying the generator so the bubble should move. You'd also absorb the rocket exhaust but that's not relevant.

Anyway I should not think about these things too much.
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3934
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:15 pm

Moppy wrote: A stasis field this would pass through a black globe without being affected therefore.
No, it's only the inside of the stasis globe that can't be disturbed. The field globe itself will be stopped by a black (or any) globe.
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3934
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:19 pm

Moppy wrote: Also come to think of it, I don't understand why you can't maneuver with a black globe up
Grav fields don't penetrate the globe.

Moppy wrote: If it was activated on a planet, the generator would soon overload from the rock underneath it, but the user could walk on the surface inside the globe shell and carry the globe.
You wouldn't get anywhere, as the globe is stuck in the planet.
Moppy
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1046
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:42 pm

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby Moppy » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:33 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:19 pm
Moppy wrote: If it was activated on a planet, the generator would soon overload from the rock underneath it, but the user could walk on the surface inside the globe shell and carry the globe.
You wouldn't get anywhere, as the globe is stuck in the planet.
It glues itself to the spot when activated?

What happens as the planet orbits?
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3934
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:06 pm

Moppy wrote: It glues itself to the spot when activated?

What happens as the planet orbits?
It does not absorb matter; inelastic collision. If it tries to absorb the planets velocity it blows before the planet notices.
Moppy
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1046
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:42 pm

Re: What happens if 2 black globes touch?

Postby Moppy » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:53 pm

Given that a ship doesn't change velocity when it activates its black globe, leads me to believe normal gravitational forces act on the generator.

Similarly globes in planetary labs, or orbital labs, can be turned on or off, and don't drift off into space burning a hole through the lab in the process when they become immune to orbital forces. The techs can continue to stand around outside the field, trying to poke it to work out what it is.

And as these structures or ships drift, the generator must drift with them.

Ergo it should be possible to move an activated generator so long as your propulsion system isn't cancelled out by the black globe.

Thus you should be able to walk around the lab carrying a globe generator, moving the generator with you (and burning a hole in your lab in the process) while it projects a bubble around you (large enough to not affect the user, of course).

Similarly a standard chemical rocket should also function if the system is completely within the field.

The regular maneuver drive is somehow negated by the black globe field as noted in the rules.

Of course black globes don't have to make sense so who knows?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests