Spaceship vs. Starship

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AnotherDilbert
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:30 pm

Moppy wrote: edit: It does add to the point defense roll against missiles, which is there I think I got that rule from. In checking the point defense rules I note another rules RAW wording problem. Double lasers add +1, triple turrets might need lasers to get +2 depending on how you read the sentence, and quads apparently get their bonus with everything regardless of how many weapons are fitted. :-)
I think we can assume this is just the general Mongoose vagueness, and laser only turrets are assumed, so that you get +1 for each additional laser in the same turret.

Note that by a very strict reading of RAW damage is not combined for fixed mounts and quad turrets according to the "Double and Triple Turrets" rule (Core, p158, Space Combat, Damage), which would not be correct as far as I can remember from beta discussions.
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby Moppy » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:55 pm

It is possible that fixed mounts on small craft might be independent turrets. They do have 1 mount per 30 or so dtons.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:41 pm

Moppy wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:55 pm
It is possible that fixed mounts on small craft might be independent turrets. They do have 1 mount per 30 or so dtons.
Each firmpoint is an individual mount and is fired separately.

Larger ships can mount fixed mounts with several weapons that are fired together.


See e.g. this confused thread:
Nerhesi wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:29 am
Therefore my stance is that:

Fire all identical weapons in a single mount together. This would apply to:

Spacecraft turrets with double/triple pulse or beam lasers.
Battledress linked weaponry.
Small weapons on spacecraft that individually weigh under 250kg, and are grouped up to 4 weapons per mount.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:45 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote: Note that by a very strict reading of RAW damage is not combined for fixed mounts and quad turrets according to the "Double and Triple Turrets" rule (Core, p158, Space Combat, Damage), ...
This is incorrect since it is fixed in HG, p24, sorry:
Up to three weapons may be mounted on a fixed mount (small craft have additional limitations), while turrets can mount one, two or three weapons, depending on their type. These weapons need not be of the same type but only one type may be used in the same attack.

If two or more weapons are of the same type, they may be fired together. One attack roll is made for all weapons being fired, but each additional weapon adds +1 per damage dice to the final damage total.
Condottiere
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby Condottiere » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:08 am

Linking turrets, firmpoints or fixed mounts should be possible, software might permit ad hoc rearrangements, but less accurate, than hardwired (firing) solutions.
Linwood
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby Linwood » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:25 am

I agree. Software should allow flexibility in linking weapons and turrets, but hardwired links should be slightly faster (granted, maybe milliseconds faster) and likely somewhat more reliable. I’d also assume reconfiguring a software-linked weapons array would impose a delay of some sort as the new configuration is activated.
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby Moppy » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:16 am

If you could link several hundred turrets you approximate a spinal mount.
Linwood
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby Linwood » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:24 am

In terms of energy delivery on target, probably. It’s certainly an interesting thought! I think range would be less, and damage could drop with range. Still....
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby Sigtrygg » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:33 am

Moppy wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:16 am
If you could link several hundred turrets you approximate a spinal mount.
Ever build a 'spinal mount' laser using TNE Fire Fusion and Steel - a truly scary weapon.
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby Moppy » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:40 pm

Linwood wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:24 am
In terms of energy delivery on target, probably. It’s certainly an interesting thought! I think range would be less, and damage could drop with range. Still....
I was thinking purely mechanically within the ruleset except for linking limits. 400 triple turrets has a damage bonus in the thousands, similiar to the 1Kd6 of a spinal.
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:50 pm

Moppy wrote: I was thinking purely mechanically within the ruleset except for linking limits. 400 triple turrets has a damage bonus in the thousands, similiar to the 1Kd6 of a spinal.
It would not be appropriate for a few hundred laser turrets to have the same armour penetrating power as a spinal mount.

The Capital Ship Battles has a highly abstracted system for firing hundreds of turrets as a single battery.
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby Moppy » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:25 pm

Yes this is one of the reasons why it's a bad idea to allow turrets to link.
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby Linwood » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:08 pm

So - a cap on the number of turrets that can be linked would be desirable. Based on TL? Or based on capabilities of the linking software? I see good arguments for both approaches.
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:41 pm

I would hesitate to allow linking of several turrets. Lasers soon surpass the performance of bays.

Example: Two linked pulse laser turrets are about as good as a small particle bay even against heavy armour:
Two linked triple laser turrets:
Image


Small Particle bay:
Image


Of course the lasers are superior against unarmoured targets.
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby Linwood » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:59 pm

If we assume the greater damage provided by bay weaponry comes from greater delivery of energy to a single precise location, then linked turrets should be weaker - it’s far more difficult to manage a similar level of precision when the weapons are more widely separated. So I can see a set of linked turrets having a greater chance to hit (maybe not on a 1-to-1 basis; a power-law relationship feels more appropriate) but not a greater chance of penetrating armor. Maybe by treating added damage as separate hits?
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby Condottiere » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:16 pm

There's a difference when a bull's charging you, and thousands of wasps are after you, if you have a thick enough hide.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:14 pm

Linwood wrote: So I can see a set of linked turrets having a greater chance to hit (maybe not on a 1-to-1 basis; a power-law relationship feels more appropriate) but not a greater chance of penetrating armor. Maybe by treating added damage as separate hits?
In CT batteries gave increased hit chance, but no extra damage.
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby Linwood » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:06 pm

That feels appropriate.
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby Moppy » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:55 pm

CT high guard batteries scored extra critical hits based on their size vs the target size.
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Re: Spaceship vs. Starship

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:02 am

Moppy wrote: CT high guard batteries scored extra critical hits based on their size vs the target size.
An increased to hit would increase both the crit chance and average damage in MgT2.

Single triple laser turret:
Image

The same, with an attack DM +2:
Image

Note that even a small DM has dramatic effect. Armour 10 has no effect on the crit chance.

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