Help with A Sum

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
JMISBEST
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Help with A Sum

Postby JMISBEST » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:33 pm

I was rolling for A Players Noble Pcs Portfolio and decided to make 2 rolls

The 1st was A 11 then A 6, which means that all her characters portfolio items go up by +60%, but the 2nd was A 3 then A 4, which means that all her characters portfolio items go down by -40%

Can you please work out for me what the total gain is on A +60% increase followed by A -40% loss. Please and thank you. Also this is not lying, it's just not my notorious luck
PsiTraveller
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Re: Help with A Sum

Postby PsiTraveller » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:21 pm

Once again with portfolios. There are other characters whose wealth will not take the game beyond your ability to cope.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/percentage-increase

But here is how you use a calculator
Wealth increase by 60%
Current value is X (say 120 MCr). Multiply by 1.6, a 60% increase
120 * 1.6 = 192

Decrease by 40%
192 X .6 = 115.2
JMISBEST
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Re: Help with A Sum

Postby JMISBEST » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:56 pm

PsiTraveller wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:21 pm
Once again with portfolios. There are other characters whose wealth will not take the game beyond your ability to cope.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/percentage-increase

But here is how you use a calculator
Wealth increase by 60%
Current value is X (say 120 MCr). Multiply by 1.6, a 60% increase
120 * 1.6 = 192

Decrease by 40%
192 X .6 = 115.2
Thanks but that's a bit hard for me. Anyway my dad told me its +20%. Thanks though
M J Dougherty
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Re: Help with A Sum

Postby M J Dougherty » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:18 pm

Why ask a question then reject the answer? You do realise that sooner or later nobody will respond, don't you?
Old School
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Re: Help with A Sum

Postby Old School » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:25 pm

Perhaps the question was asked specifically so the answer could be rejected. At what point do we stop assuming good faith?
bklokis
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Re: Help with A Sum

Postby bklokis » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:11 pm

M J Dougherty wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:18 pm
Why ask a question then reject the answer? You do realise that sooner or later nobody will respond, don't you?
Sooner I hope.
"Every RPG character worth his salt has daddy issues" - Ambrosius Quayle
M J Dougherty
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Re: Help with A Sum

Postby M J Dougherty » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:13 pm

There is a pattern here, of asking then changing the question... or in this case rejecting the answer in favour of one that is simpler but wrong.

I would suggest that if you can't do basic maths on a calculator, trying to play a game that requires it is not a great idea. Learning to do the requisite (and really quite simple) sums would be an answer, or maybe playing a less portfolio-obsessed sort of game. But at the very least if you're going to ask a question you should heed the answer.
Old School
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Re: Help with A Sum

Postby Old School » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:01 pm

I believe our friend is playing a different game, and we are all participating in it.
phavoc
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Re: Help with A Sum

Postby phavoc » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:15 pm

JMISBEST wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:56 pm
PsiTraveller wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:21 pm
Once again with portfolios. There are other characters whose wealth will not take the game beyond your ability to cope.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/percentage-increase

But here is how you use a calculator
Wealth increase by 60%
Current value is X (say 120 MCr). Multiply by 1.6, a 60% increase
120 * 1.6 = 192

Decrease by 40%
192 X .6 = 115.2
Thanks but that's a bit hard for me. Anyway my dad told me its +20%. Thanks though
Your Dad is wrong about his math.

PsiTraveller is correct. First you add the 60% to the base number. Once you have that number you then decrease that number by 40%.

The reason that just a plain 20% is wrong is that the amounts will change. That is, as they say, called math and that's how math works.

Me doth thinks the forum is being played again...
Moppy
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Re: Help with A Sum

Postby Moppy » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:09 pm

Since I don't know if the chart shows percentages, or percentage points, I regard both answers (0.96X and 1.20X) as acceptable.
phavoc
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Re: Help with A Sum

Postby phavoc » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:44 pm

It all depends on how closely you want to align with the facts and reality (aka 'math'):

Assuming you start with 100. Increase it by 60% and it's 160 (100 * .6 = 160).

Then your player takes a 40% hit to their increased portfolio, that drops their 160 to 96 (160 * -.40). Or, if you don't like that, multiply 160 * .4, which equals 64. Then subtract 64 from 160, which give you 96. It's very easy to do on a calculator.

If you go with a straight 120% increase that's 120 (100 * .2)

120 does not equal 96.

Math - ruining kids lives since some cave-person figured out counting.
Moppy
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Re: Help with A Sum

Postby Moppy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:55 pm

I think the problem is the way games use percentages, and not maths itself (although this is more arithmetic; maths usualy means the higher level stuff).

Video games tend to work with probabilities (like 0.5 to hit, add 0.1 per point of Dexterity) but players don't like the decimal point, so they write it as percentage points (50% to hit, +10% per DEX) and that leads to people new to gaming having to ask how percentages are combined and why having 1 DEX gives you 60% rather than 55%.

Outside of gaming, percentages tend to be used conventionally, the way it is traditonally taught in western schools.

For some reason western culture seem to hate arithmetic. Ask who's bad at their native language and almost no-one says anything (despite the majority of English speakers being unable to use the apostrophe properly). Ask who's bad at arithmetic and you see lots of people proud to raise hands. In the far east, this does not happen; you'd see almost no hands either way despite there being no genetic difference in ability. It's something about the culture.
Condottiere
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Re: Help with A Sum

Postby Condottiere » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:12 pm

It's why formulas have brackets, and are clear about addition/subtraction and multiplication/division.
PsiTraveller
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Re: Help with A Sum

Postby PsiTraveller » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:50 pm

Well the link I gave at the beginning of my post can literally do everything he is asking for. You can put in the initial number and the percentage increase. The result is then given. You can then put in a new number and select the decrease percentage and the new result will be shown. No calculator needed.

I've given answers to his questions before, but I think I have reached the limit of my patience. It seems an endless cycle of how to get the board to help with his anime games and spreadsheet progession.
Moppy
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Re: Help with A Sum

Postby Moppy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:54 pm

Condottiere wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:12 pm
It's why formulas have brackets, and are clear about addition/subtraction and multiplication/division.
Sometimes :-)

I particularly like the way that the C++ programming language does not define certain things like the order in which function arguments are evaluated. Thus in `f(a, b, c)` where `a`, `b` and `c` are functions themselves e.g `f(a(1), b(2), c(3))`, you have no guarantee about which order a, b, and c are computed in. Which is very amusing when they all change some shared value ... in a random order.

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