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High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:33 pm
by paltrysum
Is there a reason high-efficiency batteries are not the go-to source for jump energy in ship designs? Seems like a more efficient use of space.

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:45 pm
by phavoc
Under MGT rules, the hydrogen is used to create a 'bubble' around the ship, which over time degrades and when it collapses you are popped out into normal space. So you now physically need hydrogen to make a jump.

Previous versions of Traveller had the power systems generating energy to power the jump grid / jump drive.

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:47 pm
by paltrysum
phavoc wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:45 pm
Under MGT rules, the hydrogen is used to create a 'bubble' around the ship, which over time degrades and when it collapses you are popped out into normal space. So you now physically need hydrogen to make a jump.

Previous versions of Traveller had the power systems generating energy to power the jump grid / jump drive.
Ah, of course. I'd forgotten: Grids vs. Bubbles. Thanks, Phavoc.

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:32 pm
by baithammer
phavoc wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:45 pm
Under MGT rules, the hydrogen is used to create a 'bubble' around the ship, which over time degrades and when it collapses you are popped out into normal space. So you now physically need hydrogen to make a jump.

Previous versions of Traveller had the power systems generating energy to power the jump grid / jump drive.
Hydrogen is taken from the fuel tanks and isn't used to power the reaction, which is why the jump drive has power usage.

There are a lot of interesting technology that isn't used by the examples, as they appear to be older designs ( Previous editions) with very few updates.

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:51 pm
by phavoc
baithammer wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:32 pm
phavoc wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:45 pm
Under MGT rules, the hydrogen is used to create a 'bubble' around the ship, which over time degrades and when it collapses you are popped out into normal space. So you now physically need hydrogen to make a jump.

Previous versions of Traveller had the power systems generating energy to power the jump grid / jump drive.
Hydrogen is taken from the fuel tanks and isn't used to power the reaction, which is why the jump drive has power usage.

There are a lot of interesting technology that isn't used by the examples, as they appear to be older designs ( Previous editions) with very few updates.
Correct. That's what I said (About the hydrogen being used to create the jump bubble).

And you are right about the tech not being reflected in any of the core/classic designs. I see the point, but also I don't. Some of the tech is a real game changer and to not see the core/classic designs using any of it makes for a very odd dichotomy. Book ships would be fundamentally different if the rules were applied to them.

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:52 pm
by Condottiere
The Mongoverse changed the requirement that energy had to flow directly from an overclockable fusion power plant.

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:29 am
by baithammer
The High Efficiency Batteries have 1/60 pow/dt where as a fusion plant has 1/20 pow/dt, further the battery is 10 times less expensive.

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:55 am
by Condottiere
And that they can slowly be recharged, as and when the power plant can divert energy, or just extend the solar panels and soak up the sun.

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:00 am
by Spartan159
Just out of curiosity, where does it state that the fuel is used to form a bubble? I don't recall seeing that.

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:01 am
by Sigtrygg
Hydrogen filled jump bubble is a requirement to jump you say?

How do collectors work to power the jump drive and form a jump bubble since they don't use hydrogen?

And not only do you have the legacy Annic Nova but also that new collector equipped ship in Great Rift.

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:12 am
by baithammer
How do collectors work to power the jump drive and form a jump bubble since they don't use hydrogen?
Mgt 2ed Collectors are uber hand wavium, supposedly use exotic particles to replace the hydrogen in the jump.
Just out of curiosity, where does it state that the fuel is used to form a bubble? I don't recall seeing that.
Traveller Mainbook pg. 148
To jump, a ship creates
a bubble of hyperspace by means of injecting highenergy exotic particles into an artificial singularity.
The singularity is driven out of our universe, creating
a tiny parallel universe which is then blown up like a
balloon by injecting hydrogen into it.
The jump bubble is
folded around the ship, carrying it into the little pocket
universe.

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:04 am
by AnotherDilbert
MgT, just like LBB5, requires both power from the power plant (or storage) and hydrogen fuel to initiate jump. There is no inconsistency or change.

CT stated that some hydrogen is fused to produce energy for the jump, MgT states that some hydrogen is used to blow up the parallel jump universe. Neither says anything about all the hydrogen, or give much detail. There is no inconsistency.

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:21 pm
by phavoc
Sigtrygg wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:01 am
Hydrogen filled jump bubble is a requirement to jump you say?

How do collectors work to power the jump drive and form a jump bubble since they don't use hydrogen?

And not only do you have the legacy Annic Nova but also that new collector equipped ship in Great Rift.
That's a good question that as far as I know doesn't have an answer. I chalk it up to one of those "this idea sounds great, breaks existing system, but we'll toss it out anyways". I suppose one could argue that since it was introduced as alien tech humanity is able to reverse engineer it, hence it's an option for regular ships now. But just like things like drop tanks, you never see it used on any officially published designs.

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:20 pm
by Sigtrygg
As I have posted before, the concept of hydrogen filling a jump bubble is a bit of fanon made canon in MgT due to a misinterpretation of what was written in MegaTraveller SoM by the authors of T4 FF&S.

It is provable an error since collector equipped ship do not need hydrogen, neither do antimatter powered jump+ drives. T5, which is the current bible of how tech works doesn't mention hydrogen being used to fill a jump bubble.

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:37 pm
by baithammer
Let's put it this way, it makes much more sense the hydrogen is directly used in the process of forming the jump bubble than being used to hyper charge a jump drive as logic would dictate that a bigger power plant would be more efficient.

Another way to interpret the collector, is for it to be an extremely powerful attractor of hydrogen which takes up to a week to gather enough fuel to allow a jump. ( Given the collector has a canopy.)

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:52 pm
by Sigtrygg
Interesting handwavium, preposterous but interesting.

Explain antimatter powered drives...

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:50 pm
by phavoc
Personally I think changing the method in v1 of MGT was a mistake and not needed. It didn't bring any added value to the game, just mucked up things from many previous versions.

The collector process fits in the new "exotic" particle that is now supposed to be generated by the hydrogen (don't ask me how, I haven't a clue). But collectors themselves really break the Traveller background universe. It's fine as alien tech that nobody knows how to duplicate.

And if the process for jump travel had been left alone then antimatter, fission, fusion, battery, etc would have fit just fine.

As far as T5 goes... I have the book and it's been collecting dust ever since I got it from Kickstarter. There's some interesting things in there, but as a set of game rules, well, just ugh.

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:53 pm
by Condottiere
Maybe hydrogen is the cheapest material that can be used to transform into the water of life and maintain the jump bubble, the rest are harder to acquire or cost a great deal more.

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:55 pm
by phavoc
Maybe there is a worm you should not eat at the bottom of that bottle of hydrogen? :) :)

Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:58 pm
by Condottiere
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