High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

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baithammer
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby baithammer » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:46 am

Collectors have a neat trick as there sized based on the number of jumps the ship can make, so can have multiple jump drives to allow for jump relays.

As for scout / military usage, more useful in long range survey and intelligence deep space mothership designs.
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby Sigtrygg » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:18 pm

Or build a few million ton tenders with collectors to carry your battle fleet through empty hexes to within jump 1 of a juicy target...

wonder if the Zhodani have realised they could get their fleets within range of every Spinward Marches subsector capital without the need to build secret bases.

Yup, the law of unintended consequences strikes again :)
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby Subzero001 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:16 pm

Here is a Question: if collectors/ram-scoops are TL14 if you build them say at TL16 could you get the "disadvantage" of it not being able to be used in jump space removed, your not using the maneuver drive at this time and because your in a pocket of normal space surrounded by in essence a star "the burning hydrogen bubble" with the "exotic partials" all around needed for it to function you can then store this charge "because of the week required in jump space and to charge up" then store this charge in "high efficiency batteries" for a second jump after the primary jump has taken effect similar to what the lithium battery in battle-tech uses its "collector" to store up a charge for a second jump. You would be being more efficient at a higher tech level of technology and in essence emulating what the "ancients" did with their tech. :?:
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby paltrysum » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:39 pm

I think the mechanics dictate that the hydrogen for the jump is required regardless. A battery alone cannot do the job.
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby Sigtrygg » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:11 pm

A collector doesn't use hydrogen.

Antimatter slugs do not use hydrogen.
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby paltrysum » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:16 pm

Sigtrygg wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:11 pm
A collector doesn't use hydrogen.

Antimatter slugs do not use hydrogen.
Ah, I see now. I'm afraid I'm ignorant of collector technology. I guess that would be a workaround of the hydrogen limitation then, wouldn't it. Clever idea.
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby Sigtrygg » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:34 pm

MWM's original Jumpspace article has been reprinted in MgT JTAS 2:
Power Source
Jumping uses large amounts of energy to rip open the barriers between normal space and jump space. Normally, only a fusion power plant can supply this energy. Some alternate systems make use of solar power generators (which operate far more slowly) or anti-matter power systems (rare and very high-tech).
Note that nowhere in the article is there any mention of hydrogen being used to make a bubble; also in T5 collectors are not solar power generators - they are described as collecting exotic 'particles' from stars (in MgT collectors work in empty hexes far away from any star which is a bit odd).
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby baithammer » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:53 am

Moot point, as it's explicit in mgt 2nd that jump bubbles use hydrogen in forming the bubble.
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby Sigtrygg » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:08 pm

Not in the OTU they don't...

within the Third Imperial setting hydrogen is not used to form a bubble.

The now canonical MgT Jumpspace article trumps earlier Mongoose rules obviously
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby Condottiere » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:27 pm

All that hydrogen has to go somewhere.

Nature abhors a vacuum.
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby paltrysum » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:33 pm

Page 148 of the Traveller Core Rulebook: "Jump travel is the only known means by which a vessel may travel faster than light. To jump, a ship creates a bubble of hyperspace by means of injecting high-energy exotic particles into an artificial singularity. The singularity is driven out of our universe, creating a tiny parallel universe which is then blown up like a balloon by injecting hydrogen into it. The jump bubble is folded around the ship, carrying it into the little pocket universe.

Sounds like hydrogen is required to me. Mongoose Traveller is OTU so I'm failing to see the counter argument.
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby Condottiere » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:36 pm

It's one reason I haven't put Collectors under the microscope, it seems rather magical.
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby Old School » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:01 pm

paltrysum wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:33 pm
Mongoose Traveller is OTU
Them's fightin' words over at the COTI forums.
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby paltrysum » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:09 pm

Old School wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:01 pm
Them's fightin' words over at the COTI forums.
Angels on the head of a pin, I suppose, but as long as Matt has Marc's blessing, it's QED. What they might have a hard time with is T5 saying something else. No point in arguing that. That's where we are. The universe is essentially the same with different realities (campaigns) and different rules sets (MgT2/T5) having different takes on a few key technologies. Honestly, it makes no difference to 90% of those of us refereeing a game. You enter jump, it takes about a week, you come out of jump. That's all most of us care about. :)
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby Sigtrygg » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:53 pm

paltrysum wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:33 pm
Page 148 of the Traveller Core Rulebook: "Jump travel is the only known means by which a vessel may travel faster than light. To jump, a ship creates a bubble of hyperspace by means of injecting high-energy exotic particles into an artificial singularity. The singularity is driven out of our universe, creating a tiny parallel universe which is then blown up like a balloon by injecting hydrogen into it. The jump bubble is folded around the ship, carrying it into the little pocket universe.

Sounds like hydrogen is required to me. Mongoose Traveller is OTU so I'm failing to see the counter argument.
Collectors don't require hydrogen, they are MgT canon. MWM Jumpspace article is now MgT canon and makes no mention of hydrogen filling the jump bubble.

And MgT material is most certainly not canonical for the OTU, only for the MgT ATU, and even then the core rules are for a generic setting game, not the Third Imperium.

Within the Third Imperium setting of the OTU hydrogen most definitely is not needed to fill a jump bubble - or are you saying MWM is wrong about his own setting?
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby Sigtrygg » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:55 pm

paltrysum wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:09 pm

Angels on the head of a pin, I suppose, but as long as Matt has Marc's blessing, it's QED. What they might have a hard time with is T5 saying something else. No point in arguing that. That's where we are. The universe is essentially the same with different realities (campaigns) and different rules sets (MgT2/T5) having different takes on a few key technologies. Honestly, it makes no difference to 90% of those of us refereeing a game. You enter jump, it takes about a week, you come out of jump. That's all most of us care about. :)
It's not T5 that is contradicting the MgT core rules. It is the rules in MGT for collectors and the MgT JTAS issue 2 Jumpspace article.
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby Old School » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:58 pm

And sometimes the fight boils over to the Mongoose boards as well. . .
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby paltrysum » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:47 pm

Sigtrygg wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:53 pm
And MgT material is most certainly not canonical for the OTU, only for the MgT ATU, and even then the core rules are for a generic setting game, not the Third Imperium.

Within the Third Imperium setting of the OTU hydrogen most definitely is not needed to fill a jump bubble - or are you saying MWM is wrong about his own setting?
I disagree on the first point. But hey, if you want to call it an ATU, obviously no one is stopping you; however if this is the case, what is the OTU represented by? T5?

Second point: False equivocation on your part. You're assuming that Marc has a horse in the race and is as passionate about it as you appear to be. He probably doesn't care as much as the more rabid gearhead crowd does. Based on interviews I've listened to and read, Marc just cares if people roleplay and have a good time. He had to pick one for his setting and chose (or delegated the selection) as he did. Doesn't mean that any slightly alternative approaches are invalid in any way, shape or form.
Old School wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:58 pm
And sometimes the fight boils over to the Mongoose boards as well. . .

:D

I was going to passive aggressively say there is no fight here; just a nice little discussion between two players of the game, but yeah, apparently some folks have ideas that they feel passionate enough about to plant a flag for.
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby Sigtrygg » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:56 am

I agree with you, this is just a discussion. It is very difficult to convey the true emotion or feeling behind posts - perhaps the computer could log how frantically the keys were pressed :)

My only point really is that there is a difference between what it says in the core MgT rulebook and what then pops up in subsequent books. HG2e has collectors, which do not use hydrogen therefore the core rule book statement is incorrect for them, and MWM's Jumpspace article contradicts the core rules.

Now since the core rules are meant for designing your own setting it doesn't matter too much how the tech is said to work. But setting specific stuff modifies basic rules - with Traveller and the Third Imperium this has always been the case.
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Re: High Efficiency Batteries for Jump

Postby Old School » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:46 pm

apparently some folks have ideas that they feel passionate enough about to plant a flag for.
Yes. Just remember that every new supplement at this point probably does something that tramples on someone’s flag. Don’t take it personally, it’s their flag. That passion for the game helps keep it alive.

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