Page 1 of 2

Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:07 pm
by PsiTraveller
Does anyone here allow negative quirks to be repaired and removed from a ship? Older ships can gain several quirks that make the ship dangerous to run and expensive to maintain.

I was thinking about an extensive refit that repairs systems, overhauls with new equipment for the ship. This might get rid of the poor maintenance costs, and the negatives to sensors and piloting.

Such a refit may also get rid of the well maintained benefit and end up costing the players more, but a refit/refurbish as an advanced yard could roll the clock back on a ship to let it last longer.

Any thoughts on this?

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:38 pm
by Baldo
Ship shares. 1 ship share (or MCr 1) removes 1 negative quirk.

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:11 pm
by paltrysum
Seems only fair. Some of the quirks are downright debilitating. Enabling the Travellers to somehow fix, clean up, or otherwise enhance the ship to get rid of the quirks provides an excellent story opportunity.

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:46 pm
by JMISBEST
Good thoughts but how do you suggest clearing up the 1 about it having a reputation so bad that in several systems it will be seized, possibly without warning and could even land The Pcs in trouble and/or in jail?. After all you'd have to go their to clear it up and that could be more hassle then its worth, even assuming The Pcs discover that, which would likely be the hard way

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:30 pm
by ShawnDriscoll
Referees shouldn't quirk a ship if Travellers are trying to win the game.

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:03 pm
by Condottiere
You might not be able to do much about reputations, except move it into another sector.

As regards more mechanical problems, get the Dungeon Master to localize the problem, and in most cases throwing enough money at the problem should make it go away.

This is situational, as in some cases, it might be cheaper to sell it for parts.

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:45 pm
by Galadrion
I would also suggest role-playing as a possible avenue to remove such problems - this seems particularly appropriate for problems along the lines of the reputation issue. Some suitably heroic activity, probably with a reduced (monetary) payoff, can lead to a widespread countering reputation starting to spread. "Yeah, you know that ship, the Black Vision? Heard they been goin' after some of the worst of the other outlaws lately. Somethin' seems to've happened there - mebbe new leadership? Anyway, they've been involved in quite a few counter-piracy ops the last couple of months..." Let this sort of thing go on for a while, and the local authorities might put out some quiet contact attempts, a few successful missions get undertaken, and that "bad reputation" quirk can be quietly retired.

Repairs and resource expenditure are more appropriate for problems relating to ship operations - an extensive (and expensive) overhaul can remove such problems. In short, there are several approaches - why limit the possibilities unnecessarily?

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:45 pm
by NOLATrav
You could also make the repairs a reward from a Patron. A star port administrator, local Noble or underground chop shop could all help get a quirk removed as payment for a job well done. Leveling up the ship, as it were.

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:36 am
by baithammer
Or have an architect take a look at it for 1% of price of the ship and charge the maintenance prices in order to fix the issue.

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:36 am
by baithammer
Double post.

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:36 am
by baithammer
Triple post.

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:41 am
by Old School
I have an idea! Maybe you could have an architect take a look at it for 1% of the price of the ship and charge the maintenance prices in order to fix the issue!

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:54 am
by paltrysum
The discount for each quirk is 5% of the ship's cost, so repairing the cost has to be commensurate with that figure. It can't just be about die rolls (well, it could; you're the ref after all), it should present an adventure and/or roleplaying opportunity if the players want to fix or otherwise ameliorate the issues presented by the quirk.

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:24 pm
by PsiTraveller
Reputation repair is the more roleplaying aspect.

Ideas to address the reputation could include:
A posted notification to the TAS news service telling about change of ownership. Pay for Sector wide districution.
Notification to the Sector Naval command and then each sub-system command in case the notification from Sector command is lost in the mail.
Notifications to any bounty hunter services saying that the ship has changed ownership.
An announcement to go into the general trade traffic each time you enter a system.

The comms officer is going to be spending a lot of time and money at the X-Boat message office paying for all the messages to send out.

Then you can expect personal meetings with each system Liason to explain the message in person, make sure your paperwork is up to date.

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:31 pm
by Condottiere
Going by Trillion Credit Squadron, some things might be difficult, or near impossible to eliminate.

But I'd say it's a judgement call.

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:20 pm
by Reynard
We want a cheaper ship! Let's load it up with as many quirks as we can get away with so it's real cheap then complain we can't do anything with such a quirky ship and demand cheap ways to get rid of the quirks.

I don't think people get the concept of a cheap but old vehicle. Han and Chewy spent decades repairing and modifying the Falcon and STILL had to deal with its foibles. Role playing. You get what you pay for. The referee doesn't have to be a constant bastard with the quirks but the players shouldn't get a free pass either when they get greedy.

Fixing quirks could be possible but would be expensive and time consuming because the flaws are integral over the years and not just a spot fix. It becomes a quest and ongoing challenge if you really want to pursue it. As to the non-hardware quirks, those are definitely fixed with roleplaying adventures rather than just throwing money at it.

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:08 am
by PsiTraveller
I am looking at situations where you can throw money, or resources at a problem. The ship may be old, but you are going to rebuild her like new. Maybe you have your own asteroid workshop, or a bunch of engineers and mechanics who want a challenge. Maybe you struck it rich and are sick of the -1 Pilot rolls on everything you do.

For real world examples you have all sorts of reality shows where they buy a junk car and rebuild it to look like new. Houses get rebuilt from the foundations up.

World War 2 planes have been rebuilt and maintained and you can buy flights on them. These are 80 year old military planes taking people up for flights.

https://www.warplane.com/aircraft/flights/buy.aspx


Money and resources are for the mechanical side of things, and they likely cost twice what buying a new ship would cost. :)

Or you can go down the Larry Niven Ringworld General products route and replace the gear inside the hull with the latest technology as the years go by. The hull is impervious and eternal.

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:08 am
by Linwood
So - are there classic spacecraft conventions and contests? “Look there - that’s an old YZ4 Interceptor, just your grandpa flew in the Third Frontier War! What a beautiful restoration - I’ll bet they win Best of Show!”

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:57 am
by Condottiere
There are a number of different approaches to this, assuming that the players aren't quite happy to be presented with a fait accompli i terms of transport.

You could character generate the ship, let them visit a used starship lot, assemble it themselves in their garage from a nearby junkyard, or buy it off eBay.

Re: Getting rid of negative Quirks in spacecraft

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:19 am
by MongooseMatt
Reynard wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:20 pm
I don't think people get the concept of a cheap but old vehicle. Han and Chewy spent decades repairing and modifying the Falcon and STILL had to deal with its foibles.
This.

We were very much thinking of the Falcon when we tackled these rules.