Accelerator shotguns?

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Annatar Giftbringer
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Accelerator shotguns?

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:28 pm

Greetings,
Before the Vanguard Kickstarter got cancelled we did get a few previews, and among them were a new weapon - an accelerator shotgun. From the model previews it looked like it would fire a swarm of mini accelerator rockets, and its Vanguard stats were damage 5D, range short (6 squares), zero-g.

So, what should it look like in Traveller? Damage 5D, range 10, zero-g, no dodge? No idea regarding ammo, since vanguard didn’t use it.

Any thoughts?
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:17 pm

5D is too much damage and armour penetration, same as an Anti-Materiel Rifle, better than a HMG.

The Accelerator Rifle is the same damage as a regular rifle.

So perhaps 4D damage, same as a regular shotgun?


Many small low energy impactors should have less penetration than a .50 cal bullet, so perhaps count armour double against shotguns?
Annatar Giftbringer
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:38 pm

Thin is, all the other weapons in the preview dealt more or less the same damage as in Traveller, that’s why I suggested 5D for this one.

Could be that its some form of special ammo, same as I suspect is the case with snub weapons (they deal more damage than regular ammo snubs did in 1st ed).

I agree that double armour might be appropriate, as with regular shotguns.
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby Moppy » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:02 pm

Odd that this is missing. Accelerator shotguns are probably the preferred weapon for shipboard combat due to zero-g and not penetrating compartments.

edit: Civilian anyway. Won't work against battledress.
Condottiere
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby Condottiere » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:56 am

Smoothbore, possibly eighteen millimetre calibre.

More advanced technology should allow mini grenades, with shaped charges.

Since you want to cancel out recoil, and ranges tend to be relatively short, slow constant burn rocket.
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby steve98052 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:11 pm

A much more practical low-recoil shotgun would launch a large round at low velocity, with a small secondary charge to bump it up fast enough to make it down a long corridor fast enough that targets can't take cover, and a timer so it explodes like a small fragmentation round. With a little technology, the timer can be set by the gun's rangefinder. In other words, it would be a mini-grenade launcher that handles like a shotgun, not an actual shotgun.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:47 pm

Why not just a laser?

The enemy presumably wears a vacc suit with armour about 10, making small pellet and fragmentation attacks ineffective.
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby NOLATrav » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:01 pm

I've been imaging this in a fashion similar to steve98052 - but as flechette rounds built to rupture vacc suits rather than a fragmentation round. Sort of like the old M40 but with a clip:

The Accelerator Shotgun (commonly called a Boarding Shotgun) is a short, smoothbore weapon which fires a large caliber flechette round optimized for vacc suit and medium-duty armor penetration. Intended for basic defense of small ships and traders, it has also seen some success as an offensive weapon during customs and patrol missions.

Boarding Shotgun: TL 9, Range 20m, 4D, 2kg, Cr600, 6 rds (Cr20), Zero-G, Ignore Dodge

Annatar Giftbringer » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:38 am
I agree that double armour might be appropriate, as with regular shotguns.
Seems weird for a Zero-G anti-boarding weapon to be so anemic against common armor, the whole point is to rupture the bad guys' vacc suits?...
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:40 pm

Condottiere, that description sounds like the regular accelerator rifle?

NOLAtrav: something like that could work, yes!

Regarding double armour, the regular shotgun does have that rule, but if we assume this one’s made for combat then special ammo and no double armour would fit better. The gauss shotgun for example, even has an AP value, so there’s a form of precedence.

A single large missile could work, or a laser, but in this case I wanted to recreate the weapon from Vanguard. I’m only guessing regarding the multiple mini-missiles, but the preview showed a weapon that looks like a regular shotgun, except the front end looks like an aircraft rocket pod, i.e a cone with several small holes for individual rockets to fire through.
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:27 pm

NOLATrav wrote: Boarding Shotgun: TL 9, Range 20m, 4D, 2kg, Cr600, 6 rds (Cr20), Zero-G, Ignore Dodge
2 kg is too light? A regular shotgun is 4 kg, and the major difference is the shell fired. Too low weight also increases recoil, which is exactly what we want to avoid.
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby Condottiere » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:45 pm

We want to eliminate recoil, without a gyrostabilisor.

I'm not quite sure if the rocket motor then spins the projectile, though with a tighter tolerance between shell and smoothbore, that might not be necessary.

Desired muzzle velocity is what, four hundred metres per second?
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby NOLATrav » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:36 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:27 pm
NOLATrav wrote: Boarding Shotgun: TL 9, Range 20m, 4D, 2kg, Cr600, 6 rds (Cr20), Zero-G, Ignore Dodge
2 kg is too light? A regular shotgun is 4 kg, and the major difference is the shell fired. Too low weight also increases recoil, which is exactly what we want to avoid.
The fluff text implies it's a shortened barrel, sawed off basically, or perhaps a bullpup configuration? Not sure of barrel length effects on accelerator weapons.

We could meet in the middle and say 3 kg? But I'm just spitballing in the spirit of thread.
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:07 pm

NOLATrav wrote: We could meet in the middle and say 3 kg?
Your guess is as good as any other.
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby NOLATrav » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:14 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:07 pm
Your guess is as good as any other.
Very well, then.

Accelerator Shotgun
A standard issue shipboard security and customs weapon, the Accelerator Shotgun (more commonly known as a Boarding Shotgun) is a short-barreled, smooth bore weapon which fires a large spread flechette round designed to puncture vacc suits and defeat light armor. The most common model is essentially sawed-off but military and higher end merc and corporate security forces often use a bullpup configuration.

Accelerator (Boarding) Shotgun: TL 9, Range 20m, 4D, 3kg, Cr600, 6 round Mag (Cr20), Zero-G, Ignore Dodge

Additional Ammo Types
Rubber Shot (4D+2, 6 round Mag, Cr20, Blast 2, Stun damage only, Target Armor doubled)
Slugshot (4D, 6 round Mag, Cr25, AP2, Dodge is effective against this)
Smoke, Aerosol, Stun (as Grenade, 1 round Mag, Cr30)
Tangler (TL10, 3 round Mag, Cr40, Blast 2, ignores Armor; if hit, make Diff DEX check, DM -Shooter's Effect, or be wrapped in monofilament netting/polymer glue (no movement or Significant Actions until free), must make Very Diff DEX check to escape)
Moppy
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby Moppy » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:53 pm

We want to eliminate recoil, without a gyrostabilisor.
Sorry to necro.

If gyro could stabilise you, it's strong and you can't aim the gun properly.

Gyro would have to instantly spin up at the instant of firing. Even if it does this and you are stable, you still get propelled backwards just not spinning.

You need reactionless on the gun. Grav accelerator, or rocket where the exhaust never contacts any part of the gun.

Gyro's probably best for snipers. Lay gun on target, then turn on gyro and make small adjustment to aim as needed.

edit: I realised the weapon can leave the gyro spinning and only hold it when firing. It'll still propel the firer backward but it won't flip so much at the muzzle.
Last edited by Moppy on Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Condottiere
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby Condottiere » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:34 pm

It's a weapon option that resolves this particular issue, though you could just as well attach a machine gun or a grenade launcher.

I think it triples the basic cost, so alternatives that dampens the recoil would be more viable.
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:12 pm

A gyrostabiliser would stop the gun jumping around as you fire, not stop the kick?

So, it would help to not throw off the aim as you fire, but would not help much in zero-g.
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby Moppy » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:59 pm

Hey I am dumb. I just realised you can leave the gyroscope spinning and just clamp onto it at the moment of firing. You're still going to slide backwards and be propelled, but you may be able to reduce the weapon's muzzle flip somewhat.
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby Condottiere » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:26 pm

Specifically for zero gravity, a recoilless cannon variant where the barrel extends slightly behind the holder, and allows the energy to escape from there.

I wouldn't want to stand immediately behind the bearer, though.
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Re: Accelerator shotguns?

Postby Moppy » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:41 pm

I wouldn't fire it from inside a small stateroom either.

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