errata book?

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steve98052
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errata book?

Postby steve98052 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:06 pm

Old School wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:00 pm
Their update mechanism would be useful for errata too.
There appears to be no interest on Mongoose's part in correcting Errata in the PDF versions of their products.
A comprehensive errata book might be a good TAS project for industrious fans, if Mongoose doesn't want to do it. I converted the inDesign template to Word format, so I could make it look TAS, but I don't have the errata items. I could even convert the template again into Scribus format if Word isn't quite up to the job. It would be a good way to learn Scribus.

Does anyone have enough errata to serve as a starting point for such a project?

The way I imagine it, the errata would be arranged by book, then page by page within each book. Each erratum with an official correction would get a correction mark that indicates that it's official. Those with a bulletin board consensus correction are marked that way. Those without a clear consensus would get a list of possible solutions, maybe with a check box for referees to select their house rule.
EwanS
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Re: errata book?

Postby EwanS » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:44 pm

Good idea 👍🏻
Varulv
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Re: errata book?

Postby Varulv » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:01 pm

Yes, a very good idea.
Old School
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Re: errata book?

Postby Old School » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:36 pm

steve98052
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Re: errata book?

Postby steve98052 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:54 pm

The Google document is nice. I would have thought that it would be a lot longer, given the amount of discussion of errors, but if the errors frequently discussed are mostly questionable design decisions rather than actual errors it makes sense.

When I get home I'll schedule some time to package it in a TAS book.

Who would like credits for assembling the list as it exists in the Google document?
Old School
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Re: errata book?

Postby Old School » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:31 pm

Im sure there is plenty that could be added, especially around the ship designs in high guard.

I believe one of the contributing authors to the 2nd ed set up the page, bit I’m not sure who. If you do some searches on this forum for errata, I’m sure you can find it. You can also add to the document.
arcador
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Re: errata book?

Postby arcador » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:02 am

If we manage to make the Q&A with Matt, some of the questions will get more answers! I have a list prepared which is maturing on some of my electronic notebooks.
msprange
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Re: errata book?

Postby msprange » Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:09 pm

hi guys,

We certainly don't not want to do such a thing ourselves (?), and we do not want to abdicate our own responsibilities... but this is a fairly awesome idea that has all sorts of potential. You can have an 'official' section (whatever that really means in a modern RPG...) but also room for people to go off in their own directions with their own ideas. Which is sort of what Traveller is all about...

We would be happy to put weight behind this, and I will happily answer any questions you deem related.
Matthew Sprange

Mongoose Publishing
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com
steve98052
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Re: errata book?

Postby steve98052 » Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:34 pm

msprange wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:09 pm
. . .
We would be happy to put weight behind this, and I will happily answer any questions you deem related.
Thanks. It's good to know that this is something you want, that it has publisher support, and that it will help the product line.

I mentioned the idea of doing the layout in Scribus. If I have time to do it that way, would you also like a Scribus adaptation of your TAS inDesign template on DriveThruRPG? I already made a (rather messy) Word adaptation of the TAS template; I could share that too (by e-mail if you want to look at it before making it public).

- - -

Also, merry Christmas, happy belated solstice, Festivus, Hanukkah, and any other winter holidays to all.
arcador
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Re: errata book?

Postby arcador » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:04 pm

Something new to add:

CSC Page 43 - the Torpedo description (is a copy of the Laser Cannon)! Mailed Matt about it, here is what he sent:

Torpedo: Effectively an underwater missile, torpedoes are large and unwieldy weapons when they first appear, but can prove extremely threatening to even the largest ships. Development of torpedoes accelerates rapidly, spelling the demise of larger ships until defences improve to match them.
steve98052
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Re: errata book?

Postby steve98052 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:03 pm

Questions for people who might want an errata book:

How would you use the errata?
  1. Print it and keep it with your print books.
  2. Keep the PDF book with your other PDF books.
  3. Print individual errata items and slip them into the appropriate pages of your print books.
  4. Copy and paste them into annotations of your PDF books, or edit your PDF books if you have the tools for that.
  5. Other.
The reason I ask is that options 1 and 2 would look nicer if they were formatted in the TAS style, which looks a lot like the print books.

Option 3 would probably look best if each erratum (or each group of errata on the same page or pair of facing pages) were formatted in a variant of the TAS style, except trimmed down so that the insert pages looked like they were meant to be inserted into the books, with matching style, but designed to be cut to fit into the books without looking sloppy.

Options 1 and 3, since they're meant for print, would best be laid out to limit the amount of paper they take to print.

Option 4 doesn't have any special formatting requirements, except to make sure that the text can be copied and pasted without hassle.

- - -

Does anyone have any specific errata they'd like to claim credit for? If so, I'd like to know the item and how you'd like to be credited. Otherwise, individual errata will be left anonymous.

- - -

Matthew offered the idea of including things like house rules ("room for people to go off in their own directions with their own ideas"), which would add a lot of bulk to the book.

Are there any specific house rules (or variant interpretations of rules) that anyone would like to include? If so, I'll need your specific permission to include your words, and how you'd like to be credited (including "anonymous"). I would also need permission to revise your wording, both for the sake of copy editing (whether to use "its" or "it's", for example, or whether to use US or UK spellings) and for the sake of fitting content into the format of this book.

- - -

Finally, I'm starting my studies of Scribus, because Word just doesn't look like a way to do this job as well as it could be.
Last edited by steve98052 on Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
arcador
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Re: errata book?

Postby arcador » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:28 pm

House rules - it can be like a community companion :D (free ofc)

For practical purposes, I like the errata to be more flexible - (3) and (4). (2) will also work for me.
steve98052
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Re: errata book?

Postby steve98052 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:07 pm

Thanks, arcador. It's easier to make something people want when people say what they want.

And of course this whole project is planned as a free thing. The whole idea is to put the errata where people can find them easily, and it's a lot easier to find something when one doesn't have to ask one's self, "Do I really want to pay a buck for something that I can find for free by searching the bulletin board archives?" I suppose I could make it a "name your price" thing in case anyone finds my graphic design efforts to be worth something, but it's partly a teach-myself-Scribus thing anyway, so that's a bit like asking people to pay for my Scribus "school".

- - -

Another few more questions:

1. Would anyone care to have errata for Mongoose first edition books? I see it as useful, because not everyone has every second edition book, and because not every topic has had the full second edition treatment.

2. Would it be more useful to combine errata for second and first editions into a single volume, or two separate books? I see it as beneficial to include them in the same volume, to avoid the confusion some people might have about, "Was that in first or second?"

3. Where are the first edition errata collected?
Old School
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Re: errata book?

Postby Old School » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:56 pm

I hate to rain on anyone’s parade, and the concept of addressing errata is certainly worthwhile.

Is there really any demand or value to formatting and publishing as a TAS product? What value do you get out of that vs. just having a web accesssble document? I love that anyone is energetic about addressing errata, but when it comes to formatting everything into the templates and preparing a professional quality document, is the juice worth the squeeze?

If Mongoose wanted to put any effort into this, the correct approach is to update the actual documents so we have pdfs without the errors. A few may require some layout work, but most are simple edits. If we’re being honest, Mongoose has abdicated this responsibility from day one.
steve98052
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Re: errata book?

Postby steve98052 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:33 pm

What is the value added? Here are a few points that occur to me:
  • By making it a neatly formatted product I have a useful project to help me learn how to use Scribus.
  • It puts the Mongoose logo onto the document, which says that it has at least enough of Mongoose's endorsement that they're not telling us to remove it, and thanks to Matthew's stated approval in this thread, I think we have a more specific endorsement.
  • If I do a good job of it, people can just print and slip the errata items into their print books where they go. That's a big help for people with print books; I know because I do that with other gaming books.
  • Not everyone knows where to look for errata, but if they search for Mongoose on DriveThruRPG it will show up, which may expand its readership.
Of course, another possible place to put the errata would be the Traveller wiki, though that would require permission from Mongoose, as well as editorial consensus from the primary wiki editors.

I agree that it would work better if Mongoose were to manage its errata itself. But their editorial resources are finite, and if it is their business decision that leaving errata in the hands of others is best for them, that's the way things are, unless they change that business decision.

I have my own attitude about errata, which I spelled out in a work-in-progress gaming book:
. . . With print books, correcting errata means cutting up an errata sheet into lots of little slips of paper and taping them into the book, or tucking the errata sheet into the cover and trying to remember what pages are affected.

With electronic books, the problem goes away: just download the new version. But if one prints an electronic book, one needs to figure out what pages need reprinting – or worse, reprinting the entire book because inserted or deleted text threw off the page numbering.

My solution is that if I do a second release, I will offer both a fresh digital copy and a change set with replacement page numbers (98-v2, 99-v2, etc.), insert pages (52a-v2, 52b-v2, etc.), a deleted page list, and an updated table of contents that includes page numbers for the digital version. If I do a third release, I will include a fresh digital version, a first-to-third change set, and a second-to-third change set.

Of course, if a new edition is such an overhaul that a change set would be larger than reprinting everything, I will just include a new digital edition, and a note advising reprinting the entire book.
I plan to include a version of this in the errata (or errata and house rules) booklet, and to follow the philosophy described.
Old School
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Re: errata book?

Postby Old School » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:36 pm

Fair enough. Good luck.

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