Megafreighters

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
phavoc
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Re: Megafreighters

Postby phavoc » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:25 pm

Freighters will be built to carry cargo the most efficiently as possible. Ships on well traveled routes will not carry armaments. The 100k freighter will not be armed since it will never serve a route that has pirates on it. Having all those gunners is just a cost a merchant won't pay if they can avoid it. And that big of a ship simply won't serve small worlds that have pirates picking at it.

There is always a small chance, but keep in mind a ship with that much cargo will arrive with dry tanks, so you can't run away with it. And a system that can support that big of a ship will have police forces to protect it or keep it too hairy for pirates in the first place.

I'd have to look at the crewing rules more closely, but there is really no reason to have that large of a crew. Maintenance will be performed at a port. Most of the space is set aside for cargo or fuel. Crew should top out around fifty max. If we can have ships of huge size today with small crews then the future should be able to replicate this.
HalC
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Re: Megafreighters

Postby HalC » Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:27 am

After seeing some of the comments regarding the Ship building technology and starting at TL 15 for civilian designs, I'd like to point out the following...

What shows below is an excerpt from the Spinward Marches via the T5 census data. The values listed below are only that of the Starport - Tech level. It makes no effort to include the population values associated with the starport and its accompanying tech level. As you can see, there are only 4 starports capable of producing TL 15 ships in the entire Spinward Marches region. Presumably, there is enough business at any given starport to keep it operational. But for every 1 ship built at a TL 15 starport, there are 49 others at lower tech levels that didn't get to build that ship. Conversely, for the output of 4 shipyards (excluding the Darrian starport), there are roughly 12x as many non-TL 15 starports producing some product. If they aren't making TL 15 ships, the conclusion is - they are making TL 14, TL 13, etc ships.




Starport - Tech Level xQuantity
A - 8 x2
A - 9 x1
A - 10 x8
A - 11 x15
A - 12 x13
A - 13 x8
A - 14 x2
A - 15 x4
A - 16 x1
B - 5 x4
B - 6 x6
B - 7 x8
B - 8 x13
B - 9 x18
B - 10 x34
B - 11 x22
B - 12 x7
B - 13 x3
B - 14 x1
B - 15 x0
B - 16 x0
C - 4 x3
C - 5 x11
C - 6 x4
C - 7 x18
C - 8 x26
C - 9 x31
C - 10 x18
C - 11 x8
C - 12 x3
C - 13 x0
C - 14 x0
C - 15 x0
Sigtrygg
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Re: Megafreighters

Postby Sigtrygg » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:09 am

In the Third Imperium setting any class A starport can import parts or use makers to construct vessels of up to TL15.

General Shipyards on TL10 Regina built TL15 Kinunir class cruisers for the IN.

The linking of TL to construction and maintainance is a result of High Guard being taken out of context for the setting, something which TCS clarified.
Condottiere
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Re: Megafreighters

Postby Condottiere » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:21 am

It really comes down to how much net profit the operator can make; if higher technology can leverage that further, they'll construct ships at a higher level.

It's just a variant of min/maxing.
Moppy
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Re: Megafreighters

Postby Moppy » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:38 am

Sigtrygg wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:09 am
In the Third Imperium setting any class A starport can import parts or use makers to construct vessels of up to TL15.

General Shipyards on TL10 Regina built TL15 Kinunir class cruisers for the IN.

The linking of TL to construction and maintainance is a result of High Guard being taken out of context for the setting, something which TCS clarified.
As someone who's played TCS as a wargame (see other post) that's not true for original edition - a planet can only built at its TL. However it is true that your starting fleet doesn't have to built at the planets it starts over. I've not read any other edition's TCS, so perhaps that's a change in a newer edition.
Sigtrygg
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Re: Megafreighters

Postby Sigtrygg » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:46 am

The rules in TCS are for TCS not the Third Imperium, this has been clarified many times over the years.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Megafreighters

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:56 am

Sigtrygg wrote: In the Third Imperium setting any class A starport can import parts or use makers to construct vessels of up to TL15.
No, a news entry about a particular ship or yard is valid for that particular shipyard, it's not a general rule applicable to all starports in the Imperium.

The general rule in CT was:
LBB5'80, p20 wrote: Technological Level: Technological level is important in the design of a ship because it governs where the ship may be produced, and how well the crew can operate and maintain it. The technological level of the building shipyard determines the technological level of the ship being constructed (a class A starport on a tech level 14 world constructs a tech level 14 ship).


EDIT:
The general rule in 1979 when Kinunir was written was:
LBB5'79, p21 wrote: The technological level of the world holding the shipyard governs the construction capabilities: the tech level of a ship may not be more than 3 greater than the tech level of the shipyard. All higher tech level equipment must be imported, at 50% surcharge.
Note that Regina was later retconned to TL12.
Last edited by AnotherDilbert on Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Megafreighters

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:05 am

Sigtrygg wrote: The linking of TL to ... maintainance is a result of High Guard being taken out of context for the setting, something which TCS clarified.
Neither HG nor TCS says anything at all about maintenance and TL, in fact I am unaware of any book saying anything about maintenance and TL.
baithammer
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Re: Megafreighters

Postby baithammer » Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:46 pm

Neither HG nor TCS says anything at all about maintenance and TL
It's in mgt 2ed Mainbook, pg. 226 under Tech Level.
The Tech Level measures the average technology
presence on the planet, and gives an idea of local
production and repair capability
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Megafreighters

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:06 pm

It may be a petty point, but production and repair is not annual maintenance.

I would say maintenance is simpler, switching routine consumables and checking that everything seems in spec.
Moppy
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Re: Megafreighters

Postby Moppy » Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:43 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:06 pm
It may be a petty point, but production and repair is not annual maintenance.

I would say maintenance is simpler, switching routine consumables and checking that everything seems in spec.
It seems a valid observation.

Do annual maintenance on the frontier, and return to a higher tech facility every 10 years for the full type D check where they take the whole plane apart.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/roo-t ... intenance/
The type A check: Every eight to 10 weeks, filters will be changed, key systems (like hydraulics in the ‘control surfaces’ that steer the aircraft) will be lubricated and a detailed inspection of all the emergency equipment (like inflatable slides) is completed.

The type D check: This check is performed every six years and the entire aircraft is basically dismantled and put back together.
The jump drive and jump grid seem like the prime candidates for the type D check in Traveller. I don't think the jump drive even works reliably when fully maintained :-)
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Megafreighters

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:30 pm

HalC wrote: Starport - Tech Level xQuantity
A - 8 x2
A - 9 x1
A - 10 x8
A - 11 x15
A - 12 x13
A - 13 x8
A - 14 x2
A - 15 x4
A - 16 x1
If population is any guide to shipyard capacity, the Imperium in the SM has most capacity at TL15, very little at TL14 and about equal at TLs 11-13.

So in the SM it probably makes sense to use TL11-13 commercial ships, since the Navy would monopolise the big TL15 yards in an emergency.

The Core of the Imperium might be different.
HalC
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Re: Megafreighters

Postby HalC » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:27 pm

This may shed light on the question regarding TL of starports vs TL of home worlds...

pg 43 of MgT's STARPORTS has this to say...
Most SPA Starports have full access to TL 12 (or higher) equipment and facilities: they are either based on the worlds with a sufficient level of technological development or TL 12 items can be sourced elsewhere and transported to the planet. This allows these ports to make use of all of the modules presented in this chapter.
Elsewhere on the same page, it goes on to state that the cost of modules increases by 100% per tech level difference between the Host World's TL and the module's TL. Thus, for a TL 10 world hosting a TL 12 module, the module would cost 200% more. I noted that the example given in the book - it probably needs an errata. If hosted on a world of equal TL, the cost of the module is 100% normal. If the hosting world is lower by 1 tech level, the price should be 200% normal. If the hosting world is two tech levels lower, it should be at least 300%. But, the intent is given in the rules that starports of a low tech world can be upgraded to handle technology greater than the world's TL.

That would seem to lend credence if you will, that commercial traffic is likely going to be a baseline of TL 12 give or take (as that seems to be the standard espoused by STARPORTS). Worlds with a higher TL than 12 would of course, be able to handle TL construction HIGHER than 12.

In all, this is based on MgT products. :)
Reynard
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Re: Megafreighters

Postby Reynard » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:13 am

T4's Pocket Empires and Imperial Squadrons gave a look on how worlds produce spaceships and starships (mostly military but one can extrapolate private) based on several planetary factors including a world's tech level.
HalC
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Re: Megafreighters

Postby HalC » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:39 am

Reynard wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:13 am
T4's Pocket Empires and Imperial Squadrons gave a look on how worlds produce spaceships and starships (mostly military but one can extrapolate private) based on several planetary factors including a world's tech level.
I know I'm lazy *teasing grin*

Got page numbers to look at specifically? I remember when I looked at Pocket Empires a time in the past - I thought "Hey, neat! Rules for converting RIU's directly into cash so I can run a game like Trillion Credit Squadron - converting the RIU values directly to CrImp values.

Granted, I thought about doing this for use with High Guard 80, but still. :)
baithammer
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Re: Megafreighters

Postby baithammer » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:16 am

Calculated the starports in the Core sector.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

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