Is this a reasoable absolute minimum fleet?

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JMISBEST
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Is this a reasoable absolute minimum fleet?

Postby JMISBEST » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:07 pm

I'm toying with The Idea of A Campaign set around 1,075 where the characters are Darokyn's main allies in turning renegade and becoming Pirates and then their children will be The Pcs or at least the full-time Pcs in Pirates of Drinax and want to if 5 100 and 2 200 ton armed and armoured Scoutships, 4 400 ton Patrol Corvettes converted into Pirate Ships, 4 400 ton Gazelle Class Escorts converted into Pirate Ships, 3 500 ton Q-Ship Versions of The 600 ton Corsair, 3 500 ton Q-Ship versions of The 300 ton Indigo Class Pirate Carrier, 2 700 ton captured versions of The 600 ton Corsair and 1 1,000 ton prototype version of The 400 ton Patrol Corvette converted into A Pirate Ship Is this a reasonable absolute minimum fleet for Darokyn?
phavoc
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Re: Is this a reasoable absolute minimum fleet?

Postby phavoc » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:30 pm

JMISBEST wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:07 pm
I'm toying with The Idea of A Campaign set around 1,075 where the characters are Darokyn's main allies in turning renegade and becoming Pirates and then their children will be The Pcs or at least the full-time Pcs in Pirates of Drinax and want to if 5 100 and 2 200 ton armed and armoured Scoutships, 4 400 ton Patrol Corvettes converted into Pirate Ships, 4 400 ton Gazelle Class Escorts converted into Pirate Ships, 3 500 ton Q-Ship Versions of The 600 ton Corsair, 3 500 ton Q-Ship versions of The 300 ton Indigo Class Pirate Carrier, 2 700 ton captured versions of The 600 ton Corsair and 1 1,000 ton prototype version of The 400 ton Patrol Corvette converted into A Pirate Ship Is this a reasonable absolute minimum fleet for Darokyn?
For those who need a translation:

Proposed pirate fleet, set in year 1,075

5 x 100 ton Scoutships
2 x 200 ton Scoutships
4 x 400 ton Patrol Corvettes
4 x 400 ton Gazelle escorts
3 x 500 ton Q-ships built around the 600 ton Corsair (fitted with TARDIS tonnage amplifier)
3 x 500 ton Q-ships built around the 300 ton Indigo class carrier (fitted with TARDIS tonnage de-amplifier)
2 x 700 ton built around the 600 ton Corsair (fitted with TARDIS tonnage amplifier)
1 x 1,000 ton prototype Patrol cruiser of the 400 ton Patrol corvette (fitted with TARDIS tonnage amplifer).

(note - it goes without saying that the players require the updated Galifreyean naval handbook, which may, or may not, have already been published, depending on which time stream you happen to be occupying).

(note - while it's not stated here, I might suggest that players also reference the sourcebooks for The Cybermen, The Daleks, The Sontarans and The Master to cross-reference and understand the footnotes and endnotes listed in the Galifreyean naval handbook. References to a 'sonic screwdriver' should be found in the Sears Catalog from 1876, 1904 or 3677 (and sometimes the Bartenders Black Book, though personally I prefer the Ultimate Bar Book available from Galifrey.Com (don't expect it to arrive when expected... shipping times are hard to determine).
JMISBEST
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Re: Is this a reasoable absolute minimum fleet?

Postby JMISBEST » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:09 pm

phavoc wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:30 pm
JMISBEST wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:07 pm
I'm toying with The Idea of A Campaign set around 1,075 where the characters are Darokyn's main allies in turning renegade and becoming Pirates and then their children will be The Pcs or at least the full-time Pcs in Pirates of Drinax and want to if 5 100 and 2 200 ton armed and armoured Scoutships, 4 400 ton Patrol Corvettes converted into Pirate Ships, 4 400 ton Gazelle Class Escorts converted into Pirate Ships, 3 500 ton Q-Ship Versions of The 600 ton Corsair, 3 500 ton Q-Ship versions of The 300 ton Indigo Class Pirate Carrier, 2 700 ton captured versions of The 600 ton Corsair and 1 1,000 ton prototype version of The 400 ton Patrol Corvette converted into A Pirate Ship Is this a reasonable absolute minimum fleet for Darokyn?
For those who need a translation:

Proposed pirate fleet, set in year 1,075

5 x 100 ton Scoutships
2 x 200 ton Scoutships
4 x 400 ton Patrol Corvettes
4 x 400 ton Gazelle escorts
3 x 500 ton Q-ships built around the 600 ton Corsair (fitted with TARDIS tonnage amplifier)
3 x 500 ton Q-ships built around the 300 ton Indigo class carrier (fitted with TARDIS tonnage de-amplifier)
2 x 700 ton built around the 600 ton Corsair (fitted with TARDIS tonnage amplifier)
1 x 1,000 ton prototype Patrol cruiser of the 400 ton Patrol corvette (fitted with TARDIS tonnage amplifer).

(note - it goes without saying that the players require the updated Galifreyean naval handbook, which may, or may not, have already been published, depending on which time stream you happen to be occupying).

(note - while it's not stated here, I might suggest that players also reference the sourcebooks for The Cybermen, The Daleks, The Sontarans and The Master to cross-reference and understand the footnotes and endnotes listed in the Galifreyean naval handbook. References to a 'sonic screwdriver' should be found in the Sears Catalog from 1876, 1904 or 3677 (and sometimes the Bartenders Black Book, though personally I prefer the Ultimate Bar Book available from Galifrey.Com (don't expect it to arrive when expected... shipping times are hard to determine).
Its not A Tardis Based Ship. Rather it starts in 1,075 with characters who are the parents of the intended characters for Pirates of Drinax with the intention that when they die their children/the new characters, will inherit enough power, influence, respect and trust to add Theev and several other Worlds in that Subsector to the list of Worlds that are at worst very-long term allies against the common threats of The Zhodanni and Sword Worlds on paper but not in truth and against The Aslan and Glorious Empire on paper and in fact, all are or where friendly to the old characters/old characters parents and all to make the campaign easier for their children/the new characters
steve98052
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Re: Is this a reasoable absolute minimum fleet?

Postby steve98052 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:32 pm

I think you missed phavoc's main point, which appears to have been that lists are generally more readable when presented in a list format, rather than prose with haphazard capitalization.
phavoc
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Re: Is this a reasoable absolute minimum fleet?

Postby phavoc » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:52 pm

steve98052 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:32 pm
I think you missed phavoc's main point, which appears to have been that lists are generally more readable when presented in a list format, rather than prose with haphazard capitalization.
TRUE! But, also, some of the mathematical errors that only a TARDIS-equipped ship could hope to handle. You know, bigger on the inside than the outside?

And there were probably a few other things....

Math! Grammar!! Good sentence structure! And diety-forbid, punctuation! All these things make my spinal mount fire true!!!
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Re: Is this a reasoable absolute minimum fleet?

Postby phavoc » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:58 pm

JMISBEST wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:09 pm
Its not A Tardis Based Ship. Rather it starts in 1,075 with characters who are the parents of the intended characters for Pirates of Drinax with the intention that when they die their children/the new characters, will inherit enough power, influence, respect and trust to add Theev and several other Worlds in that Subsector to the list of Worlds that are at worst very-long term allies against the common threats of The Zhodanni and Sword Worlds on paper but not in truth and against The Aslan and Glorious Empire on paper and in fact, all are or where friendly to the old characters/old characters parents and all to make the campaign easier for their children/the new characters
I used the TARDIS reference for both sarcasm and also hopefully to point out to those that missed it that your hull numbers did not make logical sense. You can't have a 500 ton version of a 600 ton ship, or vice-versa. Those are different ships altogether. The other references to Dr. Who were simply because I was on a roll and ran with the Galifrey idea.

You have a very bad tendency to continue to add more details to already (usually) outrageous questions. The size of the fleet is one thing, but here you are adding in essentially what is a dynastic question. The two issues are not at all inter-related. Regardless of the pirate fleet (unless it was 32,456 warships, at which time it's no longer a pirate fleet by the way...), a dynasty in a sci-fi RPG has NOTHING to do with the aforementioned fleet. What are the odds that they will succeed? Or worse, successful pirates tend to either die from the navy which will hunt them down because they have become more than a nuisance.
JMISBEST
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Re: Is this a reasoable absolute minimum fleet?

Postby JMISBEST » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:06 pm

phavoc wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:58 pm
JMISBEST wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:09 pm
Its not A Tardis Based Ship. Rather it starts in 1,075 with characters who are the parents of the intended characters for Pirates of Drinax with the intention that when they die their children/the new characters, will inherit enough power, influence, respect and trust to add Theev and several other Worlds in that Subsector to the list of Worlds that are at worst very-long term allies against the common threats of The Zhodanni and Sword Worlds on paper but not in truth and against The Aslan and Glorious Empire on paper and in fact, all are or where friendly to the old characters/old characters parents and all to make the campaign easier for their children/the new characters
I used the TARDIS reference for both sarcasm and also hopefully to point out to those that missed it that your hull numbers did not make logical sense. You can't have a 500 ton version of a 600 ton ship, or vice-versa. Those are different ships altogether. The other references to Dr. Who were simply because I was on a roll and ran with the Galifrey idea.

You have a very bad tendency to continue to add more details to already (usually) outrageous questions. The size of the fleet is one thing, but here you are adding in essentially what is a dynastic question. The two issues are not at all inter-related. Regardless of the pirate fleet (unless it was 32,456 warships, at which time it's no longer a pirate fleet by the way...), a dynasty in a sci-fi RPG has NOTHING to do with the aforementioned fleet. What are the odds that they will succeed? Or worse, successful pirates tend to either die from the navy which will hunt them down because they have become more than a nuisance.
I'm talking about smaller versions of official designs that are likely prototypes designed to prove that ships that are smaller then the official versions with enough of the right tech, materials and components can prove far more effective over a period of 2 or 2.5 decades cos if you the right tech, materials and components cheap enough and from the right suppliers you may just net 3 of the new design for the cost of 2.25 to 2.5 of the initial design, which can get you ships that with the right tech can be just as good for the same cost but with potentially almost 1 in 3 ships more
phavoc
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Re: Is this a reasoable absolute minimum fleet?

Postby phavoc » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:17 pm

JMISBEST wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:06 pm
I'm talking about smaller versions of official designs that are likely prototypes designed to prove that ships that are smaller then the official versions with enough of the right tech, materials and components can prove far more effective over a period of 2 or 2.5 decades cos if you the right tech, materials and components cheap enough and from the right suppliers you may just net 3 of the new design for the cost of 2.25 to 2.5 of the initial design, which can get you ships that with the right tech can be just as good for the same cost but with potentially almost 1 in 3 ships more
Nothing wrong with that. But if that's what you mean, then state that. But even then that's not quite enough. Adding even a hundred tons to a vessel can radically alter the ship in many ways (bigger power plants, bigger hyperdrives, etc.). It's not simply adding 100 tons on so you can add another turret. And in your example you both UPsized and DOWNsized some of your examples, which can be very confusing. Plus hull tonnage doesn't really help when you have no idea what weapon systems that hull is carrying. Sometimes being too vague can make asking a question you want answered next to impossible.

And now you've gone in added TL variations to get more bang for your buck.... Sigh... At least I can jump in my TARDIS and make it back to the time before I started on this question!
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Re: Is this a reasoable absolute minimum fleet?

Postby locarno24 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:07 am

Ultimately - the actual question:
I'm toying with The Idea of A Campaign set around 1,075 where the characters are Darokyn's main allies in turning renegade and becoming Pirates.
Is [stuff] a reasonable absolute minimum fleet for Darokyn?
Easy answer: Yes. I've heard rumours of people starting a successful pirate group in the Reach with just a busted up old Star Guard 200 dTon Harrier-class.

More useful answer: Need some information first.

1 - Is Darokyn's background and motivation still the same in this campaign?
2 - When in this campaign did Theev come into being?

This basically boils down to: is Darokyn just trying to turn renegade and go "let's be pirates now" or is he specifically trying to end up as one of the Lords of Blacksand? If so, he needs enough ships to go a-pirating on a large scale, but also enough gunpower to stand off any of the other major pirate captains (most notable case being Hroal Irontooth with that bloody pocket warship of his).

Scouts, Corsairs and so on are good at looting stuff from basically unarmed merchants but unless heavily refitted can't take on anything with armour. Type T patrol cruisers (I assume that's what you mean by the corvettes?) are a touch better in equipment but still not really capable warships. Gazelle-class - if they're packing particle barbettes - can do the job handily, though, and four of them are enough to be more trouble than they're worth to justify fighting.

Honestly, I suspect you're handing way too many resources to the PCs for this campaign. Unless you're asking them to set up Theev from scratch, you've basically handed the PCs two dozen armed starships, including at least 4 'proper' warships and a baby capital ship, and said "there you go" - they basically end up dominating piracy in the Reach by default.

The questions worth looking at in that campaign are more the stages before and after that:

1 - Where are the ship's coming from? Arguably as importantly, where are the crews coming from? The Type Ts and Gazelles alone run something like 120 trained spacehands, all of whom need to be either persuaded or compelled to join in leaving the imperium and running for the Reach border. Plus, you've got to support them and keep them motivated until you reach the point where you start bringing in money. "We wants a training day!" and all that.
2 - How are the PC's getting them into the Reach? I mean "via jump space" is an obvious answer and I'm sure someone reading this thread was already thinking that. What I mean is that if you just assemble a fleet of just shy of 9,000 dTons of armed starships, including 8 navy or ex-navy warships, and announce your intention to head to the reach and start pirating merchant ships, you'll have a Navy strike cruiser squadron on your tail before you can say "Yarrr!".
3 - How do you establish your 'shoreside' resources and alliances (especially if you have deep dark secrets about your origin you need to keep hidden)? What do you do to get a seat at the table if you're too weak and how do you stop everyone else at the table banding together to pre-emptively take you out of the picture if you're too strong?




Ultimately, ship tonnages - even broad descriptions - don't matter that much because 'a 200 dTon armed ship' could be anything from a type A free trader with a pair of beam lasers to a Harrier-class.
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.

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