Can you stat it up?

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JMISBEST
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Can you stat it up?

Postby JMISBEST » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:46 pm

I've just been looking through some notes from my very 1st Pirates of Drinax Campaign, I've forgot why it got abandoned only that it wasn't for bad, personal, sexist or racist reasons, and came across the notes I'd made on The Players Plans to converted The 30,000 ton Super-Freighter The Prophet Zomom from Game of Shadow and Sun into A Heavy Cruiser to serve as Drinax's only, at the time and they officially and I secretly hoped not ever, Capital Ship and wanted to know if you could stat it up for me?. Please and thank you

It ditches 3,300 tons for 8 points of armour(can't remember if that's right or if I raised the number of armour points it gave to give it a better chance of surviving The Battle for Drinax in at least a repairable if not mostly intact state), 1,000 tons for A fighter bay of A 180 ton Repair and maintenance Bay, 200 tons for Briefing Rooms and A 620 ton Hangers that holds 20 10 ton, 10 20 and 8 40 ton fighters, 1,792 tons for 3 110 ton, 3 50 ton and 2 500 ton Bat weapons and for 292 1 ton triple turrets, 1,332 tons for 222 tons each of training facilities, medical facilities, recreational facilities, weapons upgrading facilities, Hydrophonics Bays and Mental Health Care Facilities, 3,200 tons for A 3,200 ton Barracks that holds 2,100 soldiers and 300 officers, 2,708 tons for 677 more staterooms that together with its existing 87 hold A Fighter group of 38 regular and 76 reserve pilots, 14 repair workers, 14 maintenance workers, 8 regular and 12 reserve officers, 4 strategists and the leader for the fighters, 750 gunners, 310 engineers, 50 medics, 50 officers, 50 maintenance workers, 20 shuttle and 20 ship pilots, 10 regular and 3 senior Astrogators, 10 regular and 3 senior Sensor Operators, 10 senior and 3 very senior officers, 5 senior and 2 very senior Tactical Experts, the 3rd in command, the 2nd in command and The Captain. but only the 3rd in command, the 2nd in command and The Captain and The Fighter Squadron Leader have A Stateroom to themselves and still have 1,916 ton Cargo Bay that can hold captured and/or surrendered Ships individually massing up to 400 tons and with a total mass of 1,400 tons inside of it
locarno24
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Re: Can you stat it up?

Postby locarno24 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:55 am

.....You have that much detail but haven't got stats?
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.
JMISBEST
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Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:25 am

Re: Can you stat it up?

Postby JMISBEST » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:09 am

locarno24 wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:55 am
.....You have that much detail but haven't got stats?
Its the only thing related to Traveller Starships that I slightly struggle with at the best of times, and for me these are not the best of times. Please, thank you, be kind and can you
locarno24
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Re: Can you stat it up?

Postby locarno24 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:08 pm

Hmm...

Thoughts/Disclaimers:
~ I don't have A Game of Sun and Shadow in front of me.

~ I have 1e High Guard in front of me, not 2e.

~ Prophet Zomon (not Zomom) was a 30,000 dTon freighter. Is the specific class stats (unmodified) given? If not, I would imagine a decent jump limit (J4, maybe, if it's keeping up with a fleet ship) but a relatively low thrust value (there's little need for a freighter to have more than a manoeuvre-1 drive).

~ If it's a 30 kilo-dTon ship, I don't see it being designed to 'land', but I guess it's probably at least partially streamlined - if it couldn't 'wilderness refuel' it'd be a poor choice to bring.

~ Adding double-layer armour is....a touch awkward. Multiple layers of armour plate are difficult to add to something designed as a civilian cargo ship - refitting a ship with a lot of armour without changing its displacement basically involves ripping out most of the surface layers and rebuilding them totally. I might suggest that a good option - since a lot of deckplans tend to have fuel storage under the skin over a lot of the hull - is using fuel storage tonnage for the armour - that would obviously result in cutting into the jump limit (I'm not sure if A Game of Sun and Shadow implies what the Prophet Zomon's jump limit is?).

~ The tonnage value of 3,300 dTons for armour is wrong. Adding 8 points of armour to a 30,000 dTon hull would require 6,000 dTons of titanium steel, 3,000 dTons of crystaliron or 2,000 dTons of bonded superdense.

~ The tonnage value of 620 dTons for the hangar is wrong. 20 10 dTon fighters, 10 20 dTon fighters and 8 40 dTon fighters have a combined displacement of 720 dTons, and as a minimum a capital ship hangar needs to have 110% of the volume of the ships it holds (796 dTons) for a storage hangar, probably more likely 130% (936 dTons) for 'full hangars' capable of quick launch, maintenance and proper weapons handling (if they carry expendable ordnance like torpedoes). Having a 'partial' maintenance bay for part of the complement works, I guess - capable of handling about 130 dTons of ships at once - but unless something's permanently in that bay at all times, you don't have enough storage space for each fighter to have a storage hanger.

~ As an addition, following the capital ship construction rules a hangar deck needs a launch tube to support it, whose displacement depends on the maximum size of the small craft launching from it (40dTons), which will mean a 1,000 dTon launch tube.

~ Also, 200 dTons for 50 flight briefing rooms? You only have 38 fighters, total...


~ The tonnage value of 3,200 dTons for the barracks for 2,100 soldiers is wrong. A barracks requires 2dTons per soldier, which isn't actually any less than a double-occupancy stateroom (it just costs less). Even assuming it's just the soldiers, the barracks would need to be 4,200 dTons. If the 300 officers are quartered in the barracks rather than staterooms, it would need to be 4,800 dTons.

~ Something seems off on the tonnage values of the weapon mounts. In 1e, you got turrets, 50 & 100 dTon bay mounts, each of which took 1dton fire control as well as the weapon itself. 500 dTon is not an unreasonable jump, but I've never seen 110 dTon bays. Regardless, I can't make the number of weapons line up with 1,792 dtons; it works out as a minimum of 1742 dTons (if you don't include tonnage for fire control and consider the 110 dTon bays a typo for 100 dTon) up to 1780 dTons if you include everything.




Not sure where the crew numbers came from.

Based on a 30,000 dTon ship and High Guard rules:
Base Requirements
Command Crew - 15 (5 per 10,000 dTons)
Engineering Crew - ??? (depends what drives it has post-refit)
Gunnery Crew - 308 (1 per turret, 2 per bay)
Service Crew - 90 (3 per 1,000 dTons - troops in Barracks cannot be used as a substitute)
Flight - 38 pilots (your post above implies they're all single-crew craft), 38 flight maintenance (1 per fighter), 10 launch control plus any shuttle crew.

Obviously multiplied up as appropriate (I believe 'battle strength' is 120% of starting requirements)

Engineering Section & compulsory components
Must have 3,000 dTons of fuel per 'pip' of jump rating
At 30,000 dTons, must have 3 sections, meaning 3 x 150 dTon command modules and 3 x 4 dTon briefing rooms.
Drives will depend on what you're after for thrust and jump ratings.
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.
JMISBEST
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Posts: 474
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Re: Can you stat it up?

Postby JMISBEST » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:15 pm

It was mostly made up on the spur of the moment to give Drinax a chance in a battle that otherwise they couldn't win, besides which it was my 1st Mongoose Traveller Campaign and I was even easier on my players then I should have been due to them being good friends with each other but having only known me 2 weeks or so, so as I'd had a lonely 17 months or so I did everything reasonable to please them to keep my new group after 14 odd months with not even 1 Sci-Fii RPG Session and 2 not even half-finished RPG Campaign at all
locarno24
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Re: Can you stat it up?

Postby locarno24 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:26 pm

Right, but "The Battle Of Drinax" is a purely abstract resolution system....so "we've turned Prophet Zomon into a partially-converted medium warship" should be similar without needing that much detail.

What drive performance was the ship supposed to have, anyway?
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.
JMISBEST
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:25 am

Re: Can you stat it up?

Postby JMISBEST » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:05 pm

locarno24 wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:26 pm
Right, but "The Battle Of Drinax" is a purely abstract resolution system....so "we've turned Prophet Zomon into a partially-converted medium warship" should be similar without needing that much detail.

What drive performance was the ship supposed to have, anyway?
Don't know. I seem to have lost, somehow, that part of my notes
JMISBEST
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Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:25 am

Re: Can you stat it up?

Postby JMISBEST » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:42 pm

locarno24 wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:08 pm
Hmm...

Thoughts/Disclaimers:
~ I don't have A Game of Sun and Shadow in front of me.

~ I have 1e High Guard in front of me, not 2e.

~ Prophet Zomon (not Zomom) was a 30,000 dTon freighter. Is the specific class stats (unmodified) given? If not, I would imagine a decent jump limit (J4, maybe, if it's keeping up with a fleet ship) but a relatively low thrust value (there's little need for a freighter to have more than a manoeuvre-1 drive).

~ If it's a 30 kilo-dTon ship, I don't see it being designed to 'land', but I guess it's probably at least partially streamlined - if it couldn't 'wilderness refuel' it'd be a poor choice to bring.

~ Adding double-layer armour is....a touch awkward. Multiple layers of armour plate are difficult to add to something designed as a civilian cargo ship - refitting a ship with a lot of armour without changing its displacement basically involves ripping out most of the surface layers and rebuilding them totally. I might suggest that a good option - since a lot of deckplans tend to have fuel storage under the skin over a lot of the hull - is using fuel storage tonnage for the armour - that would obviously result in cutting into the jump limit (I'm not sure if A Game of Sun and Shadow implies what the Prophet Zomon's jump limit is?).

~ The tonnage value of 3,300 dTons for armour is wrong. Adding 8 points of armour to a 30,000 dTon hull would require 6,000 dTons of titanium steel, 3,000 dTons of crystaliron or 2,000 dTons of bonded superdense.

~ The tonnage value of 620 dTons for the hangar is wrong. 20 10 dTon fighters, 10 20 dTon fighters and 8 40 dTon fighters have a combined displacement of 720 dTons, and as a minimum a capital ship hangar needs to have 110% of the volume of the ships it holds (796 dTons) for a storage hangar, probably more likely 130% (936 dTons) for 'full hangars' capable of quick launch, maintenance and proper weapons handling (if they carry expendable ordnance like torpedoes). Having a 'partial' maintenance bay for part of the complement works, I guess - capable of handling about 130 dTons of ships at once - but unless something's permanently in that bay at all times, you don't have enough storage space for each fighter to have a storage hanger.

~ As an addition, following the capital ship construction rules a hangar deck needs a launch tube to support it, whose displacement depends on the maximum size of the small craft launching from it (40dTons), which will mean a 1,000 dTon launch tube.

~ Also, 200 dTons for 50 flight briefing rooms? You only have 38 fighters, total...


~ The tonnage value of 3,200 dTons for the barracks for 2,100 soldiers is wrong. A barracks requires 2dTons per soldier, which isn't actually any less than a double-occupancy stateroom (it just costs less). Even assuming it's just the soldiers, the barracks would need to be 4,200 dTons. If the 300 officers are quartered in the barracks rather than staterooms, it would need to be 4,800 dTons.

~ Something seems off on the tonnage values of the weapon mounts. In 1e, you got turrets, 50 & 100 dTon bay mounts, each of which took 1dton fire control as well as the weapon itself. 500 dTon is not an unreasonable jump, but I've never seen 110 dTon bays. Regardless, I can't make the number of weapons line up with 1,792 dtons; it works out as a minimum of 1742 dTons (if you don't include tonnage for fire control and consider the 110 dTon bays a typo for 100 dTon) up to 1780 dTons if you include everything.




Not sure where the crew numbers came from.

Based on a 30,000 dTon ship and High Guard rules:
Base Requirements
Command Crew - 15 (5 per 10,000 dTons)
Engineering Crew - ??? (depends what drives it has post-refit)
Gunnery Crew - 308 (1 per turret, 2 per bay)
Service Crew - 90 (3 per 1,000 dTons - troops in Barracks cannot be used as a substitute)
Flight - 38 pilots (your post above implies they're all single-crew craft), 38 flight maintenance (1 per fighter), 10 launch control plus any shuttle crew.

Obviously multiplied up as appropriate (I believe 'battle strength' is 120% of starting requirements)

Engineering Section & compulsory components
Must have 3,000 dTons of fuel per 'pip' of jump rating
At 30,000 dTons, must have 3 sections, meaning 3 x 150 dTon command modules and 3 x 4 dTon briefing rooms.
Drives will depend on what you're after for thrust and jump ratings.
I've just double checked my notes and kind of like how in my Traveller Universe The Harriers where build as prototype Super-Advanced and very powerful for their size ships that where TL 15 Prototypes build by A Empire that at the time the 1st few where made was at the TL 13 this was is A prototype Super-Advanced and very powerful for their size that due to A Terrorist Attack initiated by Traitors Loyal to The Imperium who died before they could spill the beans this ship can never be exactly replicated and will be very hard to come close to replicating. Can of like Captain America was to The 40's version of The Avengers in A Mini Series within 1 of The Spiderman TV Show 25 odd years back

PS arranged that and made sure it succeeded with no seriously injured Pcs, no major Npcs Deaths and no Major Npcs with permanent serious injuries cos The GM's long terms plans to acquire more 30,000 Ton Super-Freighters to convert so would have made Drinax's Defeat impossible without A Ancient Super-Weapon blowing up The Drinax Star and destroying The Entire Drinax System. So ended up as either do what I did to guarantee Drinax had a chance of failure or do something crazy enough to make me look like A Sadistic GM
locarno24
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Re: Can you stat it up?

Postby locarno24 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:28 pm

So...why do you need the stats for the ship?

A 30 kdTon capital ship that's a converted freighter is easy (ish) to design, starting from an intended goal - a requirement for a thrust value, jump limit, intended weapons loadout, etc.

If the design you're after is an out-of-context high tech prototype which doesn't have to follow the normal ship-building rules then....basically the stats are whatever you want it to be - although TL15 is still within the scope of the 1e high guard rules, so should still really follow them.

Basically, start with intended TL, drive ratings, armament, armour and small craft capacity, and work from there.
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.

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