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Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:04 pm
by MonkeyX
I think it has to be the alien books for me. Players are able to roll up an Aslan or Vargyr in the core book but have little to draw upon about their society etc. Drinax did a great job with expanding the Aslan but all those other aliens, including the human offshoots are little more than names if you rely on just the 2e books.

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:43 pm
by M J Dougherty
I sense a 'can you just... ' coming on.

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:51 pm
by Baldo
MonkeyX wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:04 pm
I think it has to be the alien books for me
Same for me, the Solomani book in particular would be nice. However, what about a new edition of Secrets of the Ancients? I do not have the $1499 Amazon.com keeps asking...

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:10 pm
by Geir
I'd like to see new Robots and Vargr. Otherwise, I think the direction you've gone with the Naval Campaign is excellent and I look forward to seeing the same approach taken towards a new Mercenary.

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:31 pm
by TrippyHippy
msprange wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:57 am
I will look into the PDF prices, but it may be a while before we can do anything there.

However, while we are on the subject of 1e books... If we could bring back any 1e book in 2e format right now, which would you like to see?

No promises, but if the stars align, I will see what we can do!
Well, you could just re-release the existing Alien books for 1st edition. They are still mostly compatable anyway, and could sate the appetite of players in the meantime. It's concievable that you could just continue the line till completion - with Droyne, Hivers, K'Ree and Zhodani still to go. The issue comes from the layout and updates, of course, but you could do it incrementally if they are just released as PDFs, updated periodically as PDFs and then released in a few years as physical releases when finally done.

With robots, I'm not sure it would quite work to just bring back the old Robots book. What the new edition needs is a fully integrated book to make playable Robot (and A.I.s of all types) characters. Once the Companion, Psion and Mercenary books are done, I hope that the next 'Book' will be Robots.

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:49 pm
by Old School
msprange wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:57 am
I will look into the PDF prices, but it may be a while before we can do anything there.

However, while we are on the subject of 1e books... If we could bring back any 1e book in 2e format right now, which would you like to see?

No promises, but if the stars align, I will see what we can do!
Starports, with big ole’ gigantic deck plans to go with them. Not those little space station plans, but real, RegIna or Tobia worthy highports (and downports, too, but really the highports :) ). So I guess thats technically a 1e book, but with new stuff, not just updated stuff.

If I had to pick a career book, probably a combination of the best pieces of cosmopolite and Dilettante. I found that while I enjoyed much of the career book material, most of the actual careers didnt take you anywhere new vs. the 2e base careers. A few of the Cosmopolite and Dilletante careers were exceptions. So I guess that’s not technically within the rules of the question either. Maybe just one big career book, that I get to pick the careers that are included? That would work. I still use the expanded event tables for most of them. The additional variety is good.

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:09 am
by heron61
msprange wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:57 am
I will look into the PDF prices, but it may be a while before we can do anything there.

However, while we are on the subject of 1e books... If we could bring back any 1e book in 2e format right now, which would you like to see?
I'd love to see a new and better Psionics book, the 1e Book 4: Psion had some good bits, but I don't think it was up to the standards of the excellent 2e material. Also, while they never got published for 1e, I'd dearly love to see a Hivers and (especially) a Droyne book, especially since we haven't seen a book for either species since CT (except for the astoundingly terrible TNE Hivers book).

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:46 am
by msprange
Okay, everyone... you wanted it...

This thread has been causing a bit of debate, but we have started to sketch out some ideas.

A new Mercenary is already in the works, just waiting for final inspiration and a but of free time before production starts proper.

A new Psion is about 60% written already, but is a longer term project. Ready when it is done kind of thing.

Starports... huge sprawling maps... that sounds like a fantastic project for a new Kickstarter, where we can just keep adding things as we did with the Great Rift... but I digress.

All of those would be brand new projects, created from (more or less) scratch.

However, aliens...

The points you all make on aliens are more than valid, and they could certainly use proper representation in the game. However, being who we are at Mongoose, we could not avoid the chance to 'fiddle' with the idea, and so this is what we have come up with:

Aliens of Charted Space. Spread across (perhaps) four volumes, each of 250-300 pages in size.

The first volume would cover the Aslan (drawn mainly from the Drinax material, but it makes sense to include all the major races together, and not force people to lash out for Drinax?), Zhodani, Vargr and K'kree. The idea here is a) it gives all the major races present around the Marches and Reach and b) the new ideas we have for the K'kree are just too cool not to include. Seriously, we plan to make herbivores awesome!

Volume 2 covers the Solomani, Hivers, and Droyne.

Volume 3 moves onto the wannabee major races - Darrians, Geonee and Suerrat.

Volume 4 covers minor races. And we can have volumes 5 and 6 until you all tell me 'okay, Matthew, we have enough aliens now!'

Each alien race would be covered in the same detail as Aslan in Drinax, so you get the history, physiology, tech, and careers, as well as CSC, High Guard and vehicle sections. We would not be including 'home' sectors for them.

We think this approach would have the advantage of not only getting properly playable alien races into your hands, but also allows us to 'define' each alien race for the current edition, making it easier for us to proceed with other projects (such as the Fifth Frontier War).

I would be looking at getting at least volumes 1 and 2 out in 2019.

So... what do you think? Anything you would change, tweak, alter, or is there a Better Idea?

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:59 am
by baithammer
Aliens of Known Space would be better in a single volume, could give further books based on expanded regions.

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:17 am
by msprange
baithammer wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:59 am
Aliens of Known Space would be better in a single volume, could give further books based on expanded regions.
That was my first thought - but they won't fit.To do any race any sort of justice, it needs around 80-odd pages...

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:00 am
by TrippyHippy
Yay! Awesome!

:D :D :D

Now, about the Robots…..

Also, Vilani?

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:07 am
by Baldo
msprange wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:46 am
Aliens of Charted Space. Spread across (perhaps) four volumes, each of 250-300 pages in size.
If so, please also release a separate 'Sector Book' for every new alien race (Spica Sector for Hivers, Star's End Sector for K'Kree, etc. etc.). "Travellers" will always need new places to visit, after all :wink: .

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:16 am
by msprange
The Vilani are kind of the default - they already have their careers in the core book, and we have done plenty of their sectors already.

As for sectors in particular - never will be a problem. They will come, but these proposed books would be a way to get the actual aliens roaming about in the existing sectors.

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:35 am
by baithammer
That was my first thought - but they won't fit.To do any race any sort of justice, it needs around 80-odd pages...
Could give lite background of the races in the Alien's of Known Space and a more detailed account with extra material in regional books.

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:42 am
by msprange
baithammer wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:35 am
Could give lite background of the races in the Alien's of Known Space and a more detailed account with extra material in regional books.
We would still need to give a flavour of what makes them alien, and certainly unique weapons, ships, and equipment. Even if we stripped all background info from an alien, we would still need 50-60 pages to cover each one, and given the number of major races...

At least two volumes are needed to do the major races in any sort of reasonable detail. There is just no way around that.

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:44 am
by Annatar Giftbringer
It sounds like a terrific idea! Are we talking about something along the lines of Pirates of Drinax book 2, pages 26-119, with history, culture, CSC, vehicle handbook and high guard entries for each race?

Beacause that would be absolutely awesome! :D

Much of the text can be re-used from the existing alien manuals where applicable, but graphics and 2nd ed conversion will take some time and work... but it will be glorious... :)

Personally, I’d also love if - in addition to 2nd ed version of existing ships - a couple of capital ships could manage to sneak their way into the project... we need something to shoot at with our new Element cruisers :)



On a personal level I’m happy that all the races I long for the most will be included in the very first volume :)



I like the way Aslan were bundled with Pirates of Drinax, but if the aliens get a series of books on their own like this we won’t have to wait for a fitting mega-campaign/box set before each race can be introduced - so yes I’m very much in favour of this approach :)

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:57 am
by msprange
Annatar Giftbringer wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:44 am
Personally, I’d also love if - in addition to 2nd ed version of existing ships - a couple of capital ships could manage to sneak their way into the project... we need something to shoot at with our new Element cruisers :)
This is a good idea... but now I am thinking that is a separate book :)

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:07 pm
by Annatar Giftbringer
Yeah, that would probably be better! Let these books focus on adventure scale and release a separate “capital ships of the alien races”-book, or perhaps bundle it with Frontier war?

I’m not sure which of the other races that have large ships, or how they measure up to the imperium’s, but I’d love to find out :)

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:45 pm
by MonkeyX
I’d like to see one system for each race give the amount of detail Theev was in the Drinax PDFs. Tyokh for the Aslan etc. Doesn’t have to be a book entry but PDF support material would be very useful.

Re: So, what's with the supplements?

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:32 pm
by Old School
Matthew, all that sounds good. I agree there's no need to do a race profile unless you can do it justice. If people want high level stuff they can use 1e material or other versions before yours.

More importantly, I appreciate your efforts and your willingness to engage with your customers in this manner.

The question I would ask is what alien races do people actually use/want to use in their campaigns? I rarely if ever see the Hivers or K'Kree mentioned in anyone's adventures, questions, etc. Given the preponderance for campaigns being set in the Spinward Marches, Trojan Reach, and to a lesser extent the Solomani Rim and Alpha Crucis sectors, I would put the Floriani and the Darrians as a higher priority than the K'Kree or Hivers. They are more accessible in terms of game material (and also less alien, which is a matter of preference) In other words, give people what they can use to add to what they have. That's just me, though. A case can certainly be made to create something something entirely new to work with, but if you go with K'Kree and Hivers, are you going to be able to crank out campaigns and sector books to go with?

Oh, and I would certainly buy into a kickstarter campaign for starports!