T5 Errata found?

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HalC
Weasel
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:42 pm

T5 Errata found?

Postby HalC » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:45 am

Hello Folks,
Since I made a point of retiring from Citizens of the Imperium in protest over the behavior of the Moderator for CotI, I found what looks to be an errata - but don't have any way to report it.

In a nutshell, Marc Miller on page 693 states that:

"Outright Ownership of one Local Hex (approximately 65 square km= 6500 hectares= 16,000 acres)."

In digging further, I found that a local hex is supposed to be at a scale of 10 km from hex center to hex center, which in turn, implies that the width of a single local hex is 10 km wide (a line drawn from center to center of hexes goes through a side hex at its center of the line).

My quick and dirty formula for calculating the area of a circle is:

Find the width from face to face (ie side to side), and multiply that by 0.866, then multiply the two together to get your area.

For example, if your hex is nominally 25 miles wide from face to face, its area will be 25 * (25 * 0.86 = 21.5) = 537.5 square miles.

In digging deeper, I had to get the formula other than the one given above as:

Area of a hexagon is (3*(3^.5))/2 * length of Sides^2

An apothem (the line from the center of the hexagon making a perpendicular line bisecting the side of a hexagon) is = Sides/2tan(180/N) where N is number of sides in polygon (6 for a hexagon).

When you don't know the LENGTH of the sides of your hexagon, but the length of the Apothem, then the formula becomes:

Length of Sides = 2 * Tan(30) * Apothem length

Final formula then becomes:

3*(3^.5))/2 * (apothem*2*tan(30))^2

(note: if using excel, you have to use (tan(radians(degrees)) to get the proper tangent value in degrees.)

If anyone else here frequents CotI and reads this, could you please bring this up in the T5 Errata thread?

:)

Thanks
HalC
Weasel
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:42 pm

Re: T5 Errata found?

Postby HalC » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:49 am

Oops. Forgot to add the corrected values for a hex with a face to face measure of 10 km. (color me embarassed!)

Per my spreadsheet calculations, the areas should be:

86.60254038 square km, or 8660.254038 hectares, or 21,399.9537766255 acres Rounding to 2 decimal points they are:

86.60 square km

8660.25 hectares

21,399.95 acres

33.44 square miles

Sorry about that...
Old School
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 298
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Re: T5 Errata found?

Postby Old School » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:18 am

Don’t see why we would use this board to support T5.
Sigtrygg
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1079
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Re: T5 Errata found?

Postby Sigtrygg » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:11 am

Because T5 is the definitive vision of the 3I and the OTU and everything MgT does is under licence to MWM the owner of Traveller.
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
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Location: Sweden

Re: T5 Errata found?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:24 pm

The T5.09 errata thread is closed, perhaps because T5.10 seems to be close.

You might have to wait a bit to report this against T5.10?
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
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Re: T5 Errata found?

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:38 pm

Looks like spam.
HalC
Weasel
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Re: T5 Errata found?

Postby HalC » Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:59 pm

ShawnDriscoll wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:38 pm
Looks like spam.
Hmm. Not a nice comment, but you're entitled to your opinion. <shrug>

It was not intended to be a spam, but an attempt to bring up a point for those who do use T5, and if they are visitors to CotI - to perhaps bring it up there. Since I can be a bit stubborn - having been scammed by a Ford Dealership back in 1980, I swore I'd never buy a Ford (was trying to buy a Ford Mustang as my first ever purchase). To this day, nearly 40 years later, I still haven't purchased a Ford. So, having spoken to a few others where were unhappy with the moderators at CotI, one of whom sort of directed me over to Mongoose forums, I thought I'd see what this forum was like, and thus far, I think it is a reasonably friendly forum that not only discusses Traveller per Mongoose, but also discusses concepts and background and everything else.

Your comment put a chill on my belief that people can discuss concepts, as well as other rules systems in conjunction with Mongoose - all without having the feeling of "not Mongoose, must be spam". I hope that isn't the way things are done here. But if it is, no problem.

For what it is worth? I play using GURPS TRAVELLER as my go to system. But - in GURPS TRAVELLER, there were guidelines for converting other Traveller generated characters into GURPS. My most recent use of a Traveller character generation for my campaign involved... Yup, you guessed it, the Mongoose Traveller Chargen rules. My one player over the net (we use FANTASY GROUNDS) said he LOVED the MgT rules for chargen.

That's all I'll say on this particular post.
HalC
Weasel
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Re: T5 Errata found?

Postby HalC » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:23 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:24 pm
The T5.09 errata thread is closed, perhaps because T5.10 seems to be close.

You might have to wait a bit to report this against T5.10?
The only reason I discovered this, was because a buddy of mine wants to enjoy a GURPS TRAVELLER campaign via Fantasy Grounds. The character he rolled up, was a Knight to start with, and eventually became a baronet through the Mongoose Traveller Char Gen rules. This in turn led us to the idea of running his character as a former Line Officer of the Imperial Navy, whose father is a Baron on another world, and whose Father granted him a Fief on Adabicci. This in turn prompted him to ask "What is involved with my fief/manorial lands?" Going to T5, I dug up what was there, and started to use it, but then we got around to expanding on what the Warrant of Restoration (from T4) implies for the campaign universe.

Those of you who maybe have experience with HARN WORLD, know of a product called "HARN MANOR" in which it details the manorial holding of peasants, serfs, knights, and High Nobility. I was wondering if I could actively emulate that concept for Traveller (sadly, no). I purchased a while back, the product SUPPLEMENT 12: DYNASTY with the hopes of using it for a Nobles based campaign, but found it wasn't really what I wanted. Then I looked at an old Traveller Book titled "WORLD TAMER's HANDBOOK" which details the building of a colony.

That might be the way for me to go with all of this. I can detail a fief as a subpopulation within the Adabicci population, and treat them as living on manorial lands separate from the Adabicci world entirely. The Warrant of Restoration even specifies that under Article VII that...

"Article Vll-Extra-territoriality of Designated Imperial Possessions: The governance and operation of starports or other territories ceded to Imperial use is reserved to the Imperium. Movement of material and sentients between such territories and the member world shall be controlled by the member world, subject to Imperial laws governing such movement. Such territory shall be excluded from the jurisdiction of any member world, and no material or sentients shall enter such territories from any member world without the express consent of the governing Imperial authorities responsible for such territory."

By definition, the fief would come under the heading of "other territories" reserved to the Imperium.

So, THAT is how I came about discovering the issue revolving around the area of a Local Hex, and how much land is contained within it. It was the use of T4 material combined with T5 material, combined with MgT Char Gen, combined with the possible use of WORLD TAMER'S HANDBOOK for use with my GURPS TRAVELLER universe.

;)


As for informing Marc's crew? Frankly, Nothing bad will happen if no one else fixes the issue. I wouldn't have noticed it myself had it not been for my "tinkering" with the concepts and trying to get them to work together for my Traveller Unvierse. Chances are good, no one will lose any sleep over it.
WingedCat
Stoat
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Re: T5 Errata found?

Postby WingedCat » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:08 pm

Sigtrygg wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:11 am
Because T5 is the definitive vision of the 3I and the OTU and everything MgT does is under licence to MWM the owner of Traveller.
Is T5 still being actively developed and maintained? If it's been abandoned - if no further development is happening - while Mongoose's version is still under development, that might call into question the "T5 is the definitive vision" claim.

So...is T5 still being actively developed and maintained?
Sigtrygg
Greater Spotted Mongoose
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Re: T5 Errata found?

Postby Sigtrygg » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:39 pm

Yes
Old School
Banded Mongoose
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Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:41 pm

Re: T5 Errata found?

Postby Old School » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:06 pm

Theoretically, although it is still a hot mess. I can say that here, right? Since this isn't COTI?
HalC
Weasel
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:42 pm

Re: T5 Errata found?

Postby HalC » Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:09 pm

Old School wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:06 pm
Theoretically, although it is still a hot mess. I can say that here, right? Since this isn't COTI?
*teasing grin*

Don't let the Traveller Secret Police hear you say that!

Speaking of which, one of the things I enjoyed about Adabicci's secret police was the fact they were used as assassins in service of their world government. Bet you can't guess what the acronym was for their agency? Played them meaner than snakes I did I did...

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