An Alphabet of Ships

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
AnotherDilbert
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:49 am

WingedCat wrote:
AnotherDilbert wrote: By RAW fuel bladders are only for internal use, not exterior use.

A minimum fuel tank of 1 Dt is not optional, if you use a fusion power plant.
I double-checked, and High Guard only restricts fuel bladders from use for jump drives, not fusion plants.

Or do you mean the placement in the deckplans? That would matter if the ship was intended to be taken aboard another ship, or was able to jump. Neither of these is the case. That said, engine performance does need to be recalculated when the fuel tanks are full; per the notes, a Fuelbag only has Thrust 1/6 when at full capacity.
Collapsible fuel tanks (also called fuel bladders) are large flexible bladders which expand when filled with hydrogen fuel. They take up cargo space in a ship ...
They are for internal, not external use. They need a hull around them to stay intact.
For external use we have drop tanks.

While a petty point, I believe a ship needs a minimum of 1 Dt fixed fuel tanks, which is a separate, albeit no-cost component.
All ships require fuel to function and the total fuel tankage for a ship must be indicated in the design plans. There is no cost associated with space allocated to fuel tanks, ...
Other power plants require fuel tankage equal to 10% of their size (rounding up, minimum 1 ton).

WingedCat wrote: I thought the point of modules was to be undefined by the ship, so that new modules could be made up as needed. I mean, do you want me to come up with an alphabet of modules, with deckplans, just for the Hummingbird?
No, of course modules can be made up later.

I meant that modules should be defined as to number and tonnage. E.g the modular cutter has specifically one module of 30 Dt, not three modules of 10 Dt, not just some random components. Implicitly, at least when drawing the deck plans, the modules have a specific shape and placement. This may be an overly strict reading of the rules.
Streamlined reinforced hull (176 hull points) w/100 tons modular__-400__45_____80
So I mean this should be specified as four modules of 25 Dt, two modules of 50 Dt, one module of 100 Dt, or some combination.

While not mandated by the rules, I find it reasonable to assign a fixed number of hardpoints to each module.

So, I would call the Hummingbird module a single 100 Dt module with 2 hardpoints. A few basic modules might be:
Cargo 100 Dt,
Medium bay 100 Dt,
Two small bays 100 Dt,
Small bay + 50 Dt cargo 100 Dt.


Rereading the rules I can't say that you have made everything wrong, just that I wouldn't do it like that.
Last edited by AnotherDilbert on Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:15 am

WingedCat wrote: Anyway. You've reviewed the list through at least Ghost Galleon, and I thank you for it. Do you see any further corrections needed in the rest?
I can look. I stopped since I only found small inconsequential points.
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:17 am

WingedCat wrote: Icepick class fuel/ice harvesting drone, TL 12
Fuel (8 weeks' operation & transfer to other ships)____________________2_____0.1_____0
Computer/5_____________________________________________________________0_____0.05____0
Fuel tankage, no cost.
Computer: kCr 30.
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:37 am

WingedCat wrote: Jewel Wasp-class corsair, TL 15
Software: advanced fire control/3_____________0_____28____0
MCr 18.
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:40 pm

WingedCat wrote: Keyhole-class observatory ship, TL 13
Jump-1 drive (reduced fuel, stealth jump)__50_____112.5__240
Thrust-1 maneuver drive (3*reduced power)__18_____54_____135
Bridge_____________________________________40_____90_____0
Computer Core/40___________________________0______45_____0
Software: jump control/1___________________0______0.1____0
Jump: Power 180
Man: Power 45
Bridge: Cost MCr 9
Core computers don't need separate Jump Control software, it's included.

WingedCat wrote: Keyhole-class observatory ship, TL 10
Jump-1 drive (reduced fuel)______________50_____82.5__240
Bridge___________________________________40_____90 ____0
Jump: Power 180
Bridge: Cost MCr 9
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:56 pm

WingedCat wrote: Legionary-class construction/defense ship, TL 12
Pulse laser triple turret (high yield, long range)___1_____5.5____13
I would say MCr 6, i.e. I apply the tech advantage cost to the turret too, not only the weapon on the principle that the advantage applies to the entire weapon system.
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:04 pm

WingedCat wrote: Mint class mining drone, TL 12
Fixed mount firmpoint laser drill (very high yield, energy efficient)__0_____0.325___2.25
I would apply tech advantage to the fixed mount too, for a cost of kCr 375.

WingedCat wrote: Refinery/Smelter (1 ton ore / 0.5 tons raw materials per day)__________5_____2.5_____5
Refineries and Smelters are separate components.
1 Dt Refinery refines rock into 1 Dt ore per day (1 Dt, MCr 1, Power 2).
5 Dt Smelters refines 1 Dt ore into 0.5 Dt raw per day (5 Dt, MCr 2.5, Power 5).
We should probably have separate smelters for different types of ore (Common, Uncommon, etc), but the total sum is the same.

So, in 5 Dt we can have:
0.8 Dt Refinery producing 0.8 Dt ore per day (0.8 Dt, MCr 0.8, Power 1.6)
4.0 Dt Smelters producing 0.4 Dt raw per day (4.0 Dt, MCr 2.0. Power 4.0)
Note that all ore is consumed to make raw materials.


I would also like to see e.g. a Grappling Arm to handle the rocks and raw material output. A tow cable probably uses a fixed or magnetic grip that would not be much use on rocks.

The drone also needs somewhere to store the raw material. This can of course be external cargo, perhaps an interplanetary "jump" net HG, p40).
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:25 pm

WingedCat wrote: I have a hard time picturing a warship without reinforced hull.
My perhaps somewhat gamey view is that:
light hull is civilian standard,
standard hull is military standard,
reinforced hull is extra reinforcement (like e.g. an ice breaker).
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:31 pm

WingedCat wrote: Nisina-class escort carrier, TL 12
Fuel_______________________________________________119___0______0
(jump-2 + 4 weeks' operation + 10 total extra hours for fighter reaction drive)

2 missile barbettes (3*size reduced)_______________4_____12_____0
Basic fuel load is 114 Dt (600 Dt × 20% × 95%) + 4 Dt, leaving only 1 Dt for the fighters.

A missile barbette is 5 Dt, reduced to 70% it's 3.5 Dt, so two barbettes are 7 Dt.

Any military ship should probably be able to scoop and refine fuel, reliance on tankers is chancy.

WingedCat wrote: Point defense fighter, TL 12
Fuel_________________________________________1.4___0_____0
(2 weeks' operation + 10 hours reaction drive operation)

Fixed mount firmpoint beam laser (accurate)__0_____0.85__3
The reaction drive uses 0.9 Dt fuel per hour, so we have ~2 weeks + 1 hour reaction as noted in the text.

With two tech advantages the laser should cost MCr 0.75 ( (0.5+0.1) × 125% ).

The Beam laser is Medium range, hence Adjacent on a firmpoint, not good in a dogfight.

Technically we need a turret to perform Point Defence: "Using a turret-mounted laser (beam or pulse), a gunner can destroy incoming missiles." (Core, p160)

We also need Point Defence software to shield other ships.

With a single laser and the Pilot suffering a negative DM for both flying and shooting (Core, p59) it will only be marginally effective at Point Defence, hardly motivating the cost.
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:56 pm

WingedCat wrote: Ortillerist-class torpedo ship, TL 12
Close structure light hull (198 hull)______-500__33.75___100

Software: launch solution/3________________0_____16______0
I get MCr 16.875 = 500 × 0.05 × 90% × 75%

Software is TL-15, not TL-12.
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:15 pm

WingedCat wrote: Planetoid Hauler-class cargo ship, TL 9
Fusion power plant____________________________135___27____-1350
MCr 67.5.


While M-drives should work that way it probably does not. An M-Drive 0 is half the size of an M-Drive 1, but gives no effective motive power, only station-keeping.
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:34 pm

WingedCat wrote: Quarter Hammer class construction drone, TL 12
Budget thrust-1 maneuver drive (energy inefficient)__0.1___0.1125__1.3
MCr 0.15 = 0.1 × 2 × 75%.


Combining construction decks is questionable. I would like to see it as a Breakaway Hull design?

The construction deck requires crew. The computer can replace brains, but not hands. Perhaps Repair Drones can replace hands?
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:47 pm

WingedCat wrote: Runabout-class small transport, TL 9
Loading belt_________________________________________1_____0.005__1
kCr 3 for TL-7 loading belt?


Love the design, the price is certainly right!

A small Collapsible Tank and some foldable Acceleration Benches would let us use the cargo space to transport general cargo, fuel, or people as needed.
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby Old School » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:50 pm

I only looked at a few of them, but I'll say I like the Barrister a lot. High Guard doesn't give any limitations on M-Drives other than tech level, but all the designs limit larger ships to 6G. I stick to a 6G max in my game for simplicity, but I know it's not listed in the current rule.s Its just a design holdover from previous editions. I see you're holding true to the military crew requirements as well. I'd swap out some gunners for more Marines. I know the written standard is 2 gunners per turret, but it seems excessive. You need 12 to fire all weapons, right? I'd go with 14-15 gunners and add 5-6 more marines. You're going to need them when boarding ships. The Ideal crew would include some marines with gunner-0 or gunner-1 as backup gunners. Your 25G Gig is hilarious, brilliant, and awesome. Looks like a legal design, although some may not allow it. I don't think four marines in battle dress or combat armor will fit on one bench, but so what. Could you back off anything to fit 8 marines on board? I guess if you've only got 6, and that includes the pilot and gunner, you don't need to fit more.

If you're budgeting a billion credits for one ship for pirate hunting, the Barrister is that ship. As a practical matter, is it more effective in that role than 6 type-T patrol corvettes at the same price? My answer: who cares? Its awesome.
------------------
I don't understand the design of the Jewell. You've got three huge weapons. You show the Meson Cannon as an internal system. Is that how you justify having essentially three bay weapons on a 200 ton design? How are these stats (60 tons, MCr20.1, 0 power) derived? How does the meson beam fire without putting a hole in it's own ship?

Weapon systems aside, the Jewell is going to have to rely on surprise attacks given its 2G acceleration. Its bay weapons are terrifying but also have a tough time hitting a small target. Whether it captures its prey or not, it's jump one range limits its options for jumping out as well as the space it can operate in (restricted to a one jump main). It can escape a SDB, but any jump capable vessel giving pursuit has decent odds of guessing correctly when jumping after the Jewell. I like the concept of a vessel designed with murderous intent that gives even bad pirates a bad name. If you can do it using two weapons systems, it would fit within the rules and also be a more practical ship, as you could increase the capabilities of both drive systems, crew capacity, etc.

Overall, I like your use of Ion bays, which I've never really incorporated in my designs. When your goal is to disable and board a ship, I can see the small Ion Bay being quite potent, although it's obviously a big commitment of ship capacity. The ion barbettes are underpowered IMO.

Look forward to looking at more of the designs.
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby Old School » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:16 pm

One quibble: The Torch is described as having the ability to defend other torches from missile attacks. This requires point defense software.
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Old School wrote: You show the Meson Cannon as an internal system. Is that how you justify having essentially three bay weapons on a 200 ton design? How are these stats (60 tons, MCr20.1, 0 power) derived? How does the meson beam fire without putting a hole in it's own ship?
Smaller Weapons (HG, p32).
Meson Accelerator (CSC, p131).
It is similar in operation to starship-grade meson guns in that the particles it accelerates do not interact with matter until they decay, allowing the weapon to effectively shoot through any obstruction so long as the target’s location is known.
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:47 pm

WingedCat wrote: System Defense Brick class defense drone, TL 12
Reinforced buffered planetoid hull (8 Hull)___________-10___0.06___2
6 Hull, reinforced is only +10%, so gives less than 1 Hull.
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:16 pm

WingedCat wrote: Torch-class system defense boat, TL 15
Armor 13 (bonded superdense)_________________________________17.6__17.28__0

Triple beam laser turret (accurate, high yield)______________1_____1.75___5
Armour: 20.8 Dt, MCr 18.72 (200 Dt × 13 × 0.8% = 20.8 Dt)

Turret: Triple: MCr 3.75, 13 Power.


Note that 5 turns reaction fuel is generally not enough to close into dogfighting range against an uncooperative enemy.


Technically squadrons of ships only allowed in the capital combat system, Referee override of course possible.
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:36 pm

WingedCat wrote: Underfighter-class submersible fighter, TL 10
Armor 10 (4/pressure hull + 6/crystaliron)____________3.75__9______0

Military grade sensors w/extended arrays______________6_____12.3___6
Armour MCr 0.9.

Extended Arrays are TL-11.
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Re: An Alphabet of Ships

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:48 pm

WingedCat wrote: Worldbooker-class survey ship, TL 14
Streamlined hull (80 hull points)______________________________-400__24______80

4 docking spaces (survey drones)_______________________________115___28.75___0
160 Hull.

Docking Space: 26 Dt × 110% = (round up) = 29 Dt.
4 Docking Spaces 29 Dt × 4 = 116 Dt.

Extremely tight Power for jump, a small battery might be indicated?

WingedCat wrote: TL 14 survey drone
System_____________________________________________spaces__MCr
heavy submersible hull w/supercavitating drive_____-52_____5.2
supercavitating drive______________________________10______2.6
fuel efficient_____________________________________0_______5.2
auxiliary grav drive_______________________________13______10.4
supercav drive adds kCr 100 per space = MCr 5.2
Total base structure cost MCr 10.4 which you have used for options.
Last edited by AnotherDilbert on Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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