Starship weapons on vehicles

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GarethL
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Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby GarethL » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:47 am

So, the vehicle handbook says:
To place a spacecraft weapon into a vehicle, simply multiply the tonnage of the weapon by four. This is how many Spaces it will consume, to a minimum of 1 Space. Unless it is to be placed in a fixed mount, it will also need a spacecraft style turret which, at one ton on a spacecraft, will mean another 4 Spaces is required.
Does this mean that a pulse laser in a single spacecraft turret takes up five spaces? (mass 0, 0 x 4 = 0, minimum of one, +4 for the turret = 5),

This seems odd as the laser in a fixed mount takes one space, which seems very low when compared with other weapons? I guess since you also need the power plant (whilst other weapons are self-contained) it's not quite as bad as it looks.

I take it that barbettes don't need the extra turret as they are a weapon and heavy turret in one (and are therefore 20 spaces each)?
baithammer
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby baithammer » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:01 am

The 4 spaces is the capacity of the turret ( 3x pulse lasers = 3 spaces + 1 space for gunner station) and it only takes up 1 space in the vehicle.

Fixed weapons have the gun mounted on the exterior of the ship so doesn't take up internal space.

Further, 1 space = 0.25 dt.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:20 am

GarethL wrote: Does this mean that a pulse laser in a single spacecraft turret takes up five spaces? (mass 0, 0 x 4 = 0, minimum of one, +4 for the turret = 5),
It would seem so, yes.

GarethL wrote: I take it that barbettes don't need the extra turret as they are a weapon and heavy turret in one (and are therefore 20 spaces each)?
That would be very reasonable (and the way I would do it), but not actually what the rules say...
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:25 am

baithammer wrote: The 4 spaces is the capacity of the turret ( 3x pulse lasers = 3 spaces + 1 space for gunner station) and it only takes up 1 space in the vehicle.
? It is not a "Small Turret"?
baithammer
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby baithammer » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:50 am

It still 1 space per weapon as those weapons not listed are assumed to be 1 space.

But yeah, should've used the large turret which takes up 4 spaces / 1.0 dt in the ship.

So, 4 spaces / 1 dt inside the ship with 1 gunner station / 1 space, 3x pulse lasers 3 spaces / 0.75dt = 4 spaces.
GarethL
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby GarethL » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:04 am

baithammer wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:01 am
Fixed weapons have the gun mounted on the exterior of the ship so doesn't take up internal space.
That isn't how fixed mounts work in the vehicle handbook?
Fixed mounts have no additional cost and consume
no extra Spaces (beyond the weapons they are
mounting). However, it must be specified which
arc they fire into from the vehicle, and once this is
selected it cannot be changed.
Vehicle Handbook, page 37
If I mount a light laser cannon in a fixed mount that's 8 spaces,

But a spaceship pulse laser in a fixed mount takes up zero spaces?

This would also seem to be in contradiction with the rule that says "to a minimum of 1 Space"?
So, 4 spaces / 1 dt inside the ship with 1 gunner station / 1 space, 3x pulse lasers 3 spaces / 0.75dt = 4 spaces.
Except that:
a) it might not be a triple turret (I know, why wouldn't you, but even so), and,
b) I also have to pay spaces for the gunners station when installing parts? Am I paying space for this twice?

Aah, this would be so much simpler if Traveller stuck to either volume or mass...
GarethL
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby GarethL » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:07 am

baithammer wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:01 am
The 4 spaces is the capacity of the turret ( 3x pulse lasers = 3 spaces + 1 space for gunner station) and it only takes up 1 space in the vehicle.
That seems at odds with the rules which give the weapon a minimum space count of 1 and require that you get a turret as an extra 4 spaces - arguably this is the only part of these rules that is explicitly clear!
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:49 am

baithammer wrote: But yeah, should've used the large turret which takes up 4 spaces / 1.0 dt in the ship.

So, 4 spaces / 1 dt inside the ship with 1 gunner station / 1 space, 3x pulse lasers 3 spaces / 0.75dt = 4 spaces.
That is not quite what the rules say. As GarethL has already quoted:
To place a spacecraft weapon into a vehicle, simply multiply the tonnage of the weapon by four. This is how many Spaces it will consume, to a minimum of 1 Space. Unless it is to be placed in a fixed mount, it will also need a spacecraft style turret which, at one ton on a spacecraft, will mean another 4 Spaces is required.
This is neither a Small Turret nor a Large Turret.

Given that we can only use single turrets on small craft, it's likely that we according the quote above can only use single turrets on vehicles too.
GarethL
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby GarethL » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:10 am

Given that we can only use single turrets on small craft, it's likely that we according the quote above can only use single turrets on vehicles too.
That's a really good point that hadn't occurred to me,
baithammer
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby baithammer » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:28 pm

The example was to show no matter the size of the turret it take up 4 spaces in the ship / vehicle.

For a single turret you'd take the large turret with 4 spaces in the vehicle itself, then to size the turret you'd use 1 space for the pulse laser and 1 space for the gunner.
GarethL
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby GarethL » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:30 pm

baithammer wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:28 pm
The example was to show no matter the size of the turret it take up 4 spaces in the ship / vehicle.

For a single turret you'd take the large turret with 4 spaces in the vehicle itself, then to size the turret you'd use 1 space for the pulse laser and 1 space for the gunner.
It does also stipulate that you need a "spacecraft style turret", and infers that the turrets tonnage comes from High Guard,

That would imply that the VH turrets are not appropriate?

Are there any examples of vehicles with spacecraft weapons out there? The only one I can find is the submarine in The Great Rift, and as that has a fixed mount missile bay it doesn't shed much light here?
NOLATrav
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby NOLATrav » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:02 pm

I read it like this:

“Multiply tonnage by 4 = spaces” So a 1 dton pulse laser requires 4 spaces in a vehicle.

Fixed mount? Declare the firing arc and done.

“a spacecraft style turret... will mean ANOTHER four spaces is required.”

So 8 spaces total for turret- mounted pulse laser.

We only allow single turrets on vehicles, like the small craft rule mentioned above.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:12 pm

NOLATrav wrote: I read it like this:

“Multiply tonnage by 4 = spaces” So a 1 dton pulse laser requires 4 spaces in a vehicle.
Turret weapons have no stated tonnage in HG, hence spaces = MAX( 1, 4 × tonnage ) = MAX( 1, 4 × 0 ) = 1 Space.
dsmith14469
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby dsmith14469 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:07 pm

In the core book it has Tons for turrets, all three are one ton. but I don't see any tonnage for the actual weapons.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:38 pm

dsmith14469 wrote: In the core book it has Tons for turrets, all three are one ton. but I don't see any tonnage for the actual weapons.
Quite, hence:
GarethL wrote: Does this mean that a pulse laser in a single spacecraft turret takes up five spaces? (mass 0, 0 x 4 = 0, minimum of one, +4 for the turret = 5),
Condottiere
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby Condottiere » Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:24 am

In High Guard, a turret is a turret, it takes up the same space of one tonne.

The difference is how much you stuff into it, three or four weapon systems, which may or may not be underclocked.

If you project the restrictions of the High Guard design sequence onto dirtside vehicles, presumably that vehicle needs to be four hundred spaces to get the mature version of turretted weapons.

Fixed versions of weapon systems exist in virtual space, or hammerspace in animesque context.
NOLATrav
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby NOLATrav » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:12 am

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:12 pm
NOLATrav wrote: I read it like this:

“Multiply tonnage by 4 = spaces” So a 1 dton pulse laser requires 4 spaces in a vehicle.
Turret weapons have no stated tonnage in HG, hence spaces = MAX( 1, 4 × tonnage ) = MAX( 1, 4 × 0 ) = 1 Space.
I stand corrected, thanks for the clarification. Sorry to muddle things up, not sure where the 1 dton pulse laser came from in my thinking. Clearly it wasn't from checking sources :wink:
baithammer
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Re: Starship weapons on vehicles

Postby baithammer » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:23 am

Easy to do when the vehicle system is very different from the space ship rules.

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