Particle beam radiation damage

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Reynard
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Reynard » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:24 am

"Lasers and regular missiles will kill you just as dead, from just as long range, as Particle weapons, if perhaps needing longer to do it."

A nuke is merely a bigger bomb relative to other explosives. What makes it horrific is the radiation aftermath causing damage to survivors long after the boom is over. On top of that, radiation contamination of a location plus spreading particle fallout makes objects and places deadly. Same can be said for the particle accelerator and fusion gun that are the only weapons that cause radiation damage as well as normal damage meant to take out or incapacitate what the original hit misses. These weapons should be classified just like nukes for that reason.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:26 pm

Reynard wrote: "What makes it horrific is the radiation aftermath causing damage to survivors long after the boom is over.
Which particle and fusion weapons lack.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Reynard » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:15 pm

Particle and fusion weapons don't have the radiation trait as a secondary effect on living beings? I guess they are just another laser.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:21 pm

Reynard wrote: Particle and fusion weapons don't have the radiation trait as a secondary effect on living beings? I guess they are just another laser.
Particle weapons have the Radiation trait: They attack with a shower of temporary radiation, but they leave very little continuous radiation unlike nukes.

The continuing radiation left after nukes are remains of the weapon itself, not the radiation flash of the explosion.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Reynard » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:45 pm

As far as I can find, nukes have no rules for lingering radiation. Space borne nukes, fusion barbettes and all PAs are Radiation Weapons. Fusion and PAs vaporize the material they destroy s nukes do and this is the material that normally would be irradiated (fallout) as well as surrounding debris. They even have the same Blast of 10 meters if aimed at the ground and do x10 damage vehicle scale and other ground targets. Quite frankly, all Radiation Weapons should have the continuous radiation effect as they all can irradiate the surrounding area when activated, living tissue feeling the worst of it. In game terms, none do even the space nukes.

Oh, by the way,

A powerful missile available at lower Tech Levels,
using nuclear missiles near an inhabited planet or
orbit is forbidden by interstellar law.

So the Imperial law says you can own and deploy nukes against anything but if one purposely or 'accidentally' drops where people are they plan to have a talk with you when found. This can also explain why you can walk around with fusion barbettes and particle accelerators and tell authorities you bought it for 'home defense'. Customs will just have an annoying habit of profiling your ship for inspection.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:24 am

Reynard wrote: As far as I can find, nukes have no rules for lingering radiation.
Agreed. But we know how nukes work.

Reynard wrote: Space borne nukes, fusion barbettes and all PAs are Radiation Weapons. Fusion and PAs vaporize the material they destroy s nukes do and this is the material that normally would be irradiated (fallout) as well as surrounding debris.
No, the fallout is caused by radioactive isotopes created in the nuclear chain reaction. It requires far higher energy than merely vaporising matter.

Reynard wrote: They even have the same Blast of 10 meters if aimed at the ground and do x10 damage vehicle scale and other ground targets.
As does the bog standard laser?

Reynard wrote: A powerful missile available at lower Tech Levels,
using nuclear missiles near an inhabited planet or
orbit is forbidden by interstellar law.

So the Imperial law says you can own and deploy nukes against anything but if one purposely or 'accidentally' drops where people are they plan to have a talk with you when found.
The Imperial Rules of War are not written down, it's not a formal law. It's just that everyone knows that anyone owning or using nukes (or other WMDs) are quietly taken out back and shot.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Linwood » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:57 am

So - is a nuclear damper effective against any weapon with the Radiation trait?
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:11 am

Linwood wrote: So - is a nuclear damper effective against any weapon with the Radiation trait?
No, I don't think so.

Dampers can prevent nuclear decay, so can prevent production of new energetic particles by nuclear reaction, but they can't stop existing photons or energetic particles (radiation).
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Reynard » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:57 am

Reading the Nuclear Damper description, it seems you are affecting the delivery system before it releases the energy suppressing the reaction so it can't go critical. A particle or fusion beam is already active sending its payload of energy at lightspeed and more spread out making it impossible to intercept. If the damper system is the same as ground based units, it could theoretically be used to clean irradiated ship damage.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Linwood » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:56 am

OK, that makes sense. Thanks guys!
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:11 am

Nuclear dampers seem to work against fusion beams:
high guard, p.33 wrote:A successful use of a nuclear damper against a fusion weapon or salvo of nuclear warheads…
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:33 am

Annatar Giftbringer wrote: Nuclear dampers seem to work against fusion beams:
Yes; if we go back to CT:
HG, p18 wrote:Energy Weapons (which include plasma guns and fusion guns) fire a highly energized beam of ionized gas at the target; with the fusion gun this gas actually proceeds to fusion.
The plasma bolt from a fusion weapon is still undergoing fusion, Dampers can stop that nuclear reaction so that it is only a weak plasma bolt that reaches the target.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby steve98052 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:47 am

Radiatoon summary:

Laser: no ionizing radiation, just the heat generated by intense light, and possible explosive force of the sudden vaporization of matter struck by the laser.

X-ray laser: immediate ionizing radiation; no lingering radiation.

Particle beam (including meson gun): immediate ionizing radiation, slight (detectable, but not harmful) lingering radioactivity from nuclear spallation. Nuclear damper affects only the unimportant radioactivity, not the ionizing radiation.

Plasma gun: no ionizing radiation, just intense heat and possible explosive force (as laser).

Fusion gun: as plasma gun, plus ionizing radiation and slight lingering radioactivity (as particle beam). Nuclear damper reduces effects to those of a plasma gun.

Nuclear bomb: intense heat, intense ionizing radiation, powerful blast (reduced to the blast from vaporization of surface matter outside atmosphere), lingering radioactivity from fission products and neutron activation of bomb parts (and neutron activation of soil in a surface blast or contact blast in space). Lingering radioactivity almost entirely dissipates into space except in atmosphere. Nuclear damper turns bomb into a weak high explosive bomb or kinetic impact weapon, and cleans up lingering radioactivity.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Condottiere » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:23 am

Nuke missile, with an armour piercing warhead, exploding on the lee side if it punches right through the hull.

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