Particle beam radiation damage

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Old School
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Old School » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:04 pm

The Harrier is distinct enough with or without the Particle Barbette. And there should be a roll both for arrest attempts and spies every time the Harrier goes into port.

It works because the region is relatively lawless. Flying around the Hierate or the Imperium holding people up with impunity with a ship that unique wouldn't work for long.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Reynard » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:39 pm

Well, 'lawless' works best if you don't go landing at a port in a system you keep raiding and disrupting local trade. That's why it's best to establish safe havens to withdraw to. Still blabbermouths and spys can make life interesting if they happen to discover ships with interesting features no matter where.
Old School
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Old School » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:21 pm

Absolutely.

The harrier is just badass. If you really want to be psychopathic about it, the combination of the particle beam and the military grade countermeasures means you can kill a ship's crew with 1-2 long range shots, while they never even get a distress call out - or perhaps never even see you. The perfect crime, if one isn't concerned about body count.

When you look at the rules, it makes little sense that so many ships arm themselves with beam lasers, or even standard tech pulse lasers. A long range weapon combined with higher thrust make it pointless. TL12 allows for pulse lasers with a longer range, so it seems they would quickly become the standard.

So for the science folks who say that a particle beam wouldn't leave much in the way of residual radiation, what's the effect on anyone in low berths? Are they still hosed?
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:02 pm

Well, the beam laser does have DM+4 to hit (core rulebook p.156) which is useful for civilian traders where the gunner might not be top of the class retired naval gunner.

As for standard weapons, it’s cheaper, and for a Free Trader simply having weapons might scare off minor pirates in non-dedicated attack ships.

Once you’re up against something like the Harrier and your ship is a simple type A, it really doesn’t matter what weapons you have, you’re still gonna lose.
Reynard
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Reynard » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:44 pm

Notice most vessels not military don't come with a weapon array, the Far Trader being the exception because it goes in more out of the way locations. Many don't even feature turrets. This is because the majority of civvies rely on jumping from one 100D starport point to another normally with a lot of protection. Saves millions. That's why bold, if not old, pirates in specialized ships or outfitted merchants can win with low level weapons in turrets and a bit of skill.

When a ship appears sporting powerful military grade weapons (not beam, pulse or missile) to use on civilian assets the gloves are off and suddenly there's All Points Warnings meaning colonial, subsector and Imperial patrols get heavily involved wanting to ask you questions if they don't blast you to dust.

As to low berths, they aren't radiation hardened. The bodies will take full effect that everyone else recieves but has less chance recieving anti-rad meds until docking. Otherwise, frozen dead meat with tell-tale patterns for the investigators.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:50 pm

Why would Particle barbettes be forbidden?

The Imperial Rules of War are clear: Only WMDs are completely banned.

As far as I have understood, WMDs are banned because they can hurt the long term economy of a world, i.e. to be banned a weapon has to be able destroy or render permanently uninhabitable entire cities or regions.

Particle or fusion weapons does not even come close...


Outside the Imperium (& clients?) any banned weapons are up to the local government, but in the interest of interstellar trade i highly doubt simple turret weapons (barbettes are turrets) would be banned. Maybe the Zhos ban all armed Imperial vessels?
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:52 pm

Reynard wrote: As to low berths, they aren't radiation hardened. The bodies will take full effect that everyone else recieves but has less chance recieving anti-rad meds until docking.
Agreed.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Reynard » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:04 pm

I'm sure public opinion would have a way to paint a weapon that strikes innocent ships from deep space tearing them to pieces and causing horrible, lingering DEATH and illness crippling and disfiguring survivors - ordinary people. Notice how there's a different reaction to a rifle and an assault rifle today.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby baithammer » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:50 pm

Notice how there's a different reaction to a rifle and an assault rifle today.
And the public has a hard time understanding the difference between the two.

As to the particle beam / fusion weapons, those along with nuclear weapons should be considered with the same brush.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby steve98052 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:56 pm

Reynard wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:44 pm
. . . As to low berths, they aren't radiation hardened. The bodies will take full effect that everyone else recieves but has less chance recieving anti-rad meds until docking. Otherwise, frozen dead meat with tell-tale patterns for the investigators.
I would say that a military ship might have, in addition to its normal radiation shielding, extra radiation shielding on the frozen watch. It's a compact region of the ship, and thus less costly to shield than the entire ship, and it's the ship's last chance to keep fighting long enough to get the wounded first line crew back to a fully equipped hospital for advanced radiation treatment.

Of course, frozen watches don't seem to be all that common anyway, but if you have them, you want them to be alive when you need them.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Reynard » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:36 am

There's Hardening to reduce ion weapon damage and Armored Bulkhead to reduce physical damage to sections of a ship but there is no extra radiation shielding for small areas. It seems ship architects have determined what is available to the overall hull is sufficient and most cost effective and, to date, technology has reached an endpoint physically and relies on Black Globes at TL 15+ and even that is very rare then Energy shields at TL 16+.

The Frozen Watch (from Trillion Credit Squadron)
Many navy ships carry a frozen watch in low berths to replace
crew losses as the vessel goes into combat. A frozen watch
must contain at least 50% of the required ship’s crew as well
as 50% of the required ship’s pilots in order to be effective
once unfrozen.

Frozen Watch is a valid naval tactic but obviously can be a serious drain of displacement on any ship. A ship containing an FW has a good reason. One I can think about offhand are carriers where pilots are a priority. Another is larger troop carriers where marines are best contained on ice to reduce supplies and life support until actually needed. Most warships just can't afford the room.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby baithammer » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:44 am

Radiation shielding also has the bonus of hardening the bridge for a fairly low price.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby BigDogsRunning » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:30 am

Seems like you could easily calculate the cost of a layer of radiation shielding for small areas. They've got the cost/ton.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:59 am

Reynard wrote: I'm sure public opinion would have a way to paint a weapon that strikes innocent ships from deep space tearing them to pieces and causing horrible, lingering DEATH and illness crippling and disfiguring survivors - ordinary people.
Lasers and regular missiles will kill you just as dead, from just as long range, as Particle weapons, if perhaps needing longer to do it.

With stellar medicine radiation will kill you immediately or be taken care of by anti-rad medication. There will be no lingering mysterious illnesses.

Reynard wrote: Notice how there's a different reaction to a rifle and an assault rifle today.
Is there?

In most of the world most males are quite familiar with assault rifles from military training.

At a guess, most civilian non-hunters wouldn't recognise different types of rifles.

Either case, i doubt there would be much of a difference in reaction if you stick a green-painted rifle or an assault rifle in peoples faces.

baithammer wrote: And the public has a hard time understanding the difference between the two.
I would certainly not recognise the difference between fully automatic and semi-auto AK or M-16 knock-offs, nor would I treat them differently if I was on the wrong end of one even if I noticed the difference.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:12 am

BigDogsRunning wrote: Seems like you could easily calculate the cost of a layer of radiation shielding for small areas. They've got the cost/ton.
Agreed, rad shielding is somewhat expensive for commercial ships, and a rad shielded vault to ride out solar storms or other rad dangers would make sense.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:19 am

baithammer wrote: Radiation shielding also has the bonus of hardening the bridge for a fairly low price.
Rad shielding is ten times as expensive as bridge hardening?
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby baithammer » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:44 am

Well you can harden the computer / core or you can harden the entire bridge with the entire hull being radiation shielded.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:13 am

baithammer wrote: Well you can harden the computer / core or you can harden the entire bridge with the entire hull being radiation shielded.
The computer is not part of the bridge, so not hardened by rad shielding.

HG, p18 wrote:Every ship needs a central computer, usually installed near the bridge.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Reynard » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:49 am

Hardening neutralizes the ionization effect. It does not shield against other radiation effects.
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Re: Particle beam radiation damage

Postby Condottiere » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:50 pm

In some countries, use of a firearm during a robbery is an automatic death sentence, which is why the professionals use machetes.

I'm inclined to believe that radiation inducing weapon systems would be illegal for possession by a civilian; possibly only the use of such puts you in legal jeopardy.

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