Regrowing an arm and other medical advantages

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
PsiTraveller
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Regrowing an arm and other medical advantages

Postby PsiTraveller » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:20 am

Just noticed this in the Core book on page 50

For example, Morn suffers an injury during his career
as a barbarian, reducing his STR by 2. He has the limb
regrown at a starport hospital, at the cost of Cr10000.
He has to pay this entire amount himself – but he has
no money. Morn starts the game with a Cr10000 debt to
the hospital.


So what Tech level is limb regrowing, and it is cheap enough to cost under a year's pay for a lower level Traveller on a ship. (1000 a month salary) . Page 108 says the cost is 5000 per point lost.

How portable is this? Can an Autodoc on a ship regrow a limb? Can a medical Bay?

Thinking back to Firefly and Doctor Simon Tam. He traded his services on a couple of planets. It is possible that a Travelling ship could have a medical bay equipped with better technology than a regular hospital. (Starport hospitals would likely have the higher tech as well, as mentioned in the example above.) Out in the wilds though an enterprising character trained in medicine might make a good living trading their services.

And spinning out to look at tech levels and cultures. Think how the TL 11 Slow Drug could be used on a lower tech world. Imagine the TL 6-7 Earth with the high income sports star. A nasty injury and they could be out for the season/playoffs/championship etc. All the fans are worried. Thankfully there is a TL 12 Far Trader with a motivated crew (ie, thhey get paid) and in 24 hours the star is looking as rested as if they had a month off.

Think about how much of an economic impact the cloning tech could have on sports. No more career ending knee injuries. Can spinal damage be repaired. What rules would need to be put in place so the local sports team is not chilled and healed after every game. Players making millions per year may buy their own ship so they can heal in private and maintain their top performance.
Sigtrygg
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Re: Regrowing an arm and other medical advantages

Postby Sigtrygg » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:27 am

According to T5 cloning bodies, organs, replacement parts and forced growth are a mature TL13 technology.

So you could introduce expensive TL11-12 versions.

Electro-mechanical prosthesis are available at lower TLs.
Reynard
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Re: Regrowing an arm and other medical advantages

Postby Reynard » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:26 pm

I think the word 'regrow' is being misunderstood. The passage didn't say his limb was missing. He needs to replace a lot of tissue damage since he only took a mere 2 points of Strength. Read the Medical Treatment section on page 78 for extensive damage and even then there's no reference to limb replacement. Advanced medical treatment combined with the use of Slow Drug seems to take care of any massive damage repair at around TL 11 which is well within the capabilities of most starport medical facilities and autodocs…. at a cost.

Central Supply Catalogue talks about biotech limb augmentation, which could also mean replacement, at TL 16.
Sigtrygg
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Re: Regrowing an arm and other medical advantages

Postby Sigtrygg » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:34 pm

It says:
has the limb regrown
experimental TL11-12, mature at TL13 if you go by T5
Reynard
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Re: Regrowing an arm and other medical advantages

Postby Reynard » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:43 pm

That can mean tissue regrowth for the limb. Why would the limb be missing for only 2 points ability reduction? Cr.10,000 sounds awfully cheap to regrow an entire limb too.
Tom Kalbfus
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Re: Regrowing an arm and other medical advantages

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:16 pm

Reynard wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:43 pm
That can mean tissue regrowth for the limb. Why would the limb be missing for only 2 points ability reduction? Cr.10,000 sounds awfully cheap to regrow an entire limb too.
What experience do you have for Cr10,000 being cheap? If you assume the Travellers get into a lot of fights, that could be a lot of money! How often do you suppose they would get their limbs lopped off in combat?
PsiTraveller
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Re: Regrowing an arm and other medical advantages

Postby PsiTraveller » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:11 pm

5000 per point of stat damage is a cheap way of getting healthy. That is about 25 000 dollars. (2 credits for a fast food meal, assume burger fries and a drink is $10 makes a credit worth 5 bucks each.)

An athlete getting a month of rest for 500 credits and 24 hours in a cryo berth is a good investment for him, the team, and easy money for the medic.
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Re: Regrowing an arm and other medical advantages

Postby steve98052 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:35 pm

Are there canon prices for such things as limb regrowth? I would rule the regrowth from cloned cells as cheap, but there's still the transplant surgery to place the cloned body parts in the injured body, and surgery is always expensive, per Baumol's cost disease.
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Re: Regrowing an arm and other medical advantages

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:45 pm

steve98052 wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:35 pm
Are there canon prices for such things as limb regrowth? I would rule the regrowth from cloned cells as cheap, but there's still the transplant surgery to place the cloned body parts in the injured body, and surgery is always expensive, per Baumol's cost disease.
Surgery is not necessary if limbs can be grown in the severed stumps in the first place, starting with stem cells. If you need to grow the cloned body parts in a vat and then attach them requiring a skilled surgeon, that is one thing, but perhaps the limb can be grown on the body itself, eliminating the need for surgery.
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Re: Regrowing an arm and other medical advantages

Postby steve98052 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:13 pm

Quite true. I suppose if the rules include the possibility of psionic limb or organ regeneration, technological regeneration should be possible too. However regeneration of an essential organ would not be possible unless the patient were connected to a technological substitute. For example, if your liver If wounded down to a few fragments or disabled by toxins, you'd need a liver machine to support regrowth. A new heart would almost certainly require external regrowth and surgical implantation. Some substitute machines are less complicated (kidney dialysis), while others are heavy duty surgery to hook up and safely disconnect (heart-lung machine).

I would think that when external regrowth is necessary, the patient would be in a medical low berth, to save aging and high intensity care.
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Re: Regrowing an arm and other medical advantages

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:07 pm

steve98052 wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:13 pm
Quite true. I suppose if the rules include the possibility of psionic limb or organ regeneration, technological regeneration should be possible too. However regeneration of an essential organ would not be possible unless the patient were connected to a technological substitute. For example, if your liver If wounded down to a few fragments or disabled by toxins, you'd need a liver machine to support regrowth. A new heart would almost certainly require external regrowth and surgical implantation. Some substitute machines are less complicated (kidney dialysis), while others are heavy duty surgery to hook up and safely disconnect (heart-lung machine).

I would think that when external regrowth is necessary, the patient would be in a medical low berth, to save aging and high intensity care.
Yes true, and organ growth can serve another purpose as well. What if you wanted to make a flesh and blood android for example with only a computer substituting for the brain, everything else is flesh and blood. To grow the android, you would need to get a DNA sample from the donor, possibly even without his consent, mabe obtaining a few cells on the sly, grow an organic body for the android brain, connect the two together, then kidnap the unsuspecting victim and replace him with the android. How does that sound? What if the guy was rich or a political leader or something like that? just imagine the possibilities!
AndrewW
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Re: Regrowing an arm and other medical advantages

Postby AndrewW » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:31 pm

Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:07 pm
Yes true, and organ growth can serve another purpose as well. What if you wanted to make a flesh and blood android for example with only a computer substituting for the brain, everything else is flesh and blood. To grow the android, you would need to get a DNA sample from the donor, possibly even without his consent, mabe obtaining a few cells on the sly, grow an organic body for the android brain, connect the two together, then kidnap the unsuspecting victim and replace him with the android. How does that sound? What if the guy was rich or a political leader or something like that? just imagine the possibilities!
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