G-force induced loss of consciousness

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paltrysum
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G-force induced loss of consciousness

Postby paltrysum » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:39 pm

It doesn't come up that often in Traveller because we have our beloved hand wavey gravitics technology, but what if it does come up? Has anyone come up with rules for handling the ability to withstand G force? Apparently fitness, age, and training, as well as body positioning can affect how many Gs a person can withstand without going unconscious.

What might you use? An endurance check with a -1 DM for every four-year period beyond age 50 and a +1 DM for every age block below age 30? Perhaps apply Pilot (Spacecraft or Small Craft) skill or Athletics (Endurance) in a chain task to provide a boon?
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Re: G-force induced loss of consciousness

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:35 am

Problem is I can imagine a gravity trap, some hapless sole steps on a booby trapped grav plate which then subjects him to 100-Gs of force which then squashes him into a bloody fleshy human pancake! Do you want to see that happen in your role playing game?
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Re: G-force induced loss of consciousness

Postby Condottiere » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:21 am

More of an issue when you like cutting costs in your star/spaceship designs, and decide that grav plates, and probably inertial compensators become optional luxuries.

https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/Mediocre ... chiffchaff

Remember, it's the Expanse and therefore probably considered graphic.

Might explain why most commercial craft don't really exceed three gees in acceleration.
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Re: G-force induced loss of consciousness

Postby paltrysum » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:24 pm

Not really thinking of 100 Gs. More like 2-9 Gs. I'm thinking Athletics (END) is the most likely candidate for a task check, but we could probably work in some kind of task chain plus potential roleplaying moves (positioning the body better) to stay conscious during the effect.

Here's my perception of Traveller gravitics technology: If you can accelerate 6 Gs, then the gravitic drive can counteract 6 Gs. It cannot counteract 7 Gs or more.
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Re: G-force induced loss of consciousness

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:05 pm

Several SciFi book have dealt with this, most famously The Mote in God's Eye and Infinite War.

Sustained G's above 2G and people can't really move around.
Above about 10G and you pass out.

G-suits and Acceleration Couches might make 6G sustained possible with a LOT of discomfort and training (thus keeping the original 6G limit on acceleration and providing a reason).
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Re: G-force induced loss of consciousness

Postby NOLATrav » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:03 pm

paltrysum wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:24 pm
Here's my perception of Traveller gravitics technology: If you can accelerate 6 Gs, then the gravitic drive can counteract 6 Gs. It cannot counteract 7 Gs or more.
That's how it works IMTU.

END is the stat I use, with the DM allowing greater or lesser resistance. No skill checks involved but ZeroG (I carried it over from 1e) allows greater resistance as well. So I guess Athletics (DEX) would be the comparable skill but END seems a better fit... House rules:


Humans and similar player races can generally withstand forces up to 1.25 times their native gravity plus 0.10G per positive point of Endurance DM, without aid, for a number of hours equal to their Endurance. After this, they become fatigued. Individuals trained in ZeroG skill may resist an additional 0.15G per level of skill due to the discipline's ingrained concentration techniques and understanding of the forces involved (level 0 grants no bonus).

Beyond these limits, any sapient being or animal aboard a ship without gravitic compensation or without mechanical or chemical aid will suffer 1 Hit to END per six-minute turn for every 0.5G of force or fraction thereof that is not counteracted. This is non-lethal stun damage unless the forces are greater than three times the being's native gravity or last greater than three times the being's resistance period. If the ship performs a dodge, a significant change in vector or is manoeuvring in an atmosphere characters without compensation receive 1 Hit to STR or DEX per 0.5G of force (armour may be applied to this). Any character that attempts a task without full gravitic compensation suffers a DM-1 per every 0.5G of uncompensated force.

An average Human with UPP 777777 from a world with 1.00 surface gravity can withstand manoeuvring forces of 1.25G for seven hours before becoming fatigued. If that Human had Endurance 9 (DM+1) they could withstand 1.25 + 0.10 = 1.35G for nine hours before becoming fatigued. In both cases skill of ZeroG 1 would allow an extra 0.15G of manoeuvring forces to be resisted (1.40G and 1.50G respectively) but it would not increase the time limit before fatigue sets in.


I'll see if I can figure out how to upload the chart I built of inertial compensators.
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Re: G-force induced loss of consciousness

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:31 am

Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:05 pm
Several SciFi book have dealt with this, most famously The Mote in God's Eye and Infinite War.

Sustained G's above 2G and people can't really move around.
Above about 10G and you pass out.

G-suits and Acceleration Couches might make 6G sustained possible with a LOT of discomfort and training (thus keeping the original 6G limit on acceleration and providing a reason).
If you can carry someone of equal weight on your back, you can walk in 2Gs.
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Re: G-force induced loss of consciousness

Postby Linwood » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:12 pm

Whether the character has a g-suit should matter. I doubt most vacc suits have an anti-g feature.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-suit

Without a g-suit 3-5 Gs should be the upper limit for most characters. With one the limit could be considerably higher.
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Re: G-force induced loss of consciousness

Postby Condottiere » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:11 am

In theory, Traveller spaceships can accelerate twenty five gees with a manoeuvre drive and a reactionary rocket. Like a cannon. And it's canon.

It's never stated what happens to any player characters who happen to be aboard at that time, though one assumes since it's mentioned as a possibility, they should be able to do so with no long term effects upon their health.

But to determine this, you would need a canonical explanation and clarification as to the nature and how does it function of induced artificial gravity and inertial compensators.
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Re: G-force induced loss of consciousness

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:00 pm

Condottiere wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:11 am
In theory, Traveller spaceships can accelerate twenty five gees with a manoeuvre drive and a reactionary rocket. Like a cannon. And it's canon.

It's never stated what happens to any player characters who happen to be aboard at that time, though one assumes since it's mentioned as a possibility, they should be able to do so with no long term effects upon their health.

But to determine this, you would need a canonical explanation and clarification as to the nature and how does it function of induced artificial gravity and inertial compensators.
A lot of discussion that high gees can induce unconsciousness, I don't know what there is to discuss, it just does! I don't know of anyone who takes the opposite opinion, do you?
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Re: G-force induced loss of consciousness

Postby paltrysum » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:40 pm

The discussion is around situations in which it might come up in a fictitious universe that has artificial G and enduring it when it comes up. Several good points made by all.
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Re: G-force induced loss of consciousness

Postby Condottiere » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:12 am

We have no idea how high inertial compensation scales in Mongooseverse.

Does anyone?
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Re: G-force induced loss of consciousness

Postby NOLATrav » Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:16 pm

Since I can't figure out how to post an image, I'll type it out:

INERTIAL COMPENSATORS
Compensator TL Counteraction Availability
Civilian Couch 8 1.0G + 0.25G per TL past 12 Standard in all civilian staterooms
Civilian Console 8 1.0G + 0.25G per TL past 11 Standard in all civilian crew stations
Military Couch 8 1.25G, as above Standard in all military bunks
Military Console 8 1.25G, as above Standard in all military crew stations
G-Drugs 8 per dose: 1.5G + 0.1G Possibly restricted: throw Law or higher to find on a given world, Cr25 x TL per dose
per TL past 10
Improved Dampening 10 increases ship's integral IC by 50% Class A or B, Cr15000 per ton of hull, one day per 10 tons of hull
Grav Belt 12 1.5G + 0.2G per TL past 12 Fairly common, limited by TL
HE or Boarding Vacc Suit 8 - 14 Protect / 10 (0.6 - 1.5G) Possibly restricted
w/grav assist
Combat Armor 11 - 14 Protection / 10 (1.2G - 1.6G) Restricted
w/grav assist
Battle Dress 9 - 16 Protection / 10 (1.0G - 2.8G) Highly restricted
w/grav assist

This is for 1e, haven't looked at 2e numbers but they should be close (for vacc suits and armor). So IMTU in a normal situation, a crew and pax can withstand 1.25G (standard Human baseline) plus 1.25G (TL 12 crew station) for a total of 3.0G before bad things start happening. If strapped in, damage is slow, stun-like damage to END causing eventual blackout then death. If unsecured and being thrown about, damage is regular blunt force trauma leading to death (armor can help).

Hope this is legible...
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Re: G-force induced loss of consciousness

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:32 pm

Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:31 am
Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:05 pm
Several SciFi book have dealt with this, most famously The Mote in God's Eye and Infinite War.

Sustained G's above 2G and people can't really move around.
Above about 10G and you pass out.

G-suits and Acceleration Couches might make 6G sustained possible with a LOT of discomfort and training (thus keeping the original 6G limit on acceleration and providing a reason).
If you can carry someone of equal weight on your back, you can walk in 2Gs.
You absolutely can do that. Now, do that all day and tell me how it feels - don't EVER put them down...
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You can call me Sir.

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