When is a starport not

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Reynard
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby Reynard » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:43 am

Make me imagine a country having an extensive airport that's federally owned and operated and handling a major hub for international trade. Other airports around the country are privately run but with similar features and handle local and regional traffic.
phavoc
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby phavoc » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:09 pm

That seems to expansive of a definition. I get there may be an orbital component to a downport, though some orbital components may dwarf their planetary partners, or vice versa. But its too simplistic to say all facilities are part of the same "starport". Yes the imperial port could be the largest, but a planet isnt bound to only use the imperial one. Especially since most might have multiple large population centers which require multiple landing ground facilities or orbital ones. If we use ports as an example we will see that quite clearly.
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby PsiTraveller » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:21 pm

Would people want to use the Imperial Port if Imperial law is the standard there? Or would they want to use the local laws on the planetary port? Then you get into who controls what and Imperial power vs planetary power.

there is also the issue of money.Starports can be profitable of they are the ones selling fuel. Berthing fees, broker fees, warehouse fees, air tax, weapon tax and a tax on trade help fill the Imperial coffers. Having other ports might dilute that. Would the Imperials allow such an assault on their control of space?
Tom Kalbfus
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:34 pm

Could this be a starport?
Image
Image
Reynard
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby Reynard » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:38 pm

Now I need to go through all the recent stuff I bought from Mongoose because I believe there was information about cylinder facilities including use as a or the starport.
Condottiere
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby Condottiere » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:09 am

Your parsecage is going to vary.

As I recall, Terra had three DownPorts during the War of Imperium Aggression, let's assume they were the major ones that handle really large cargo and passenger volumes and spaceships; no mention is made of beanstalks.

You can bet regional competition would ensure that there would be a lot more spaceship landing fields dotted around the globe.

One overarching aerospace authority might control orbital facilities and approaches, though those facilities could be separate.
Reynard
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby Reynard » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:08 am

Not Mongoose as I thought. Journal #23, Space Habitats. Says orbiting habitats of a certain size can also host starports.

Going through MegaTraveller World Builder's Handbook, larger cities (primary, secondary and tertiary) will all contain a port facility of some level. Primaries can potentially have a starport of the UPP value while most others will have a spaceport. These are downports and remember that downports are only good for streamlined vessels. Highports are often the realm of high population and richer worlds so you have to think what the demographics of ship design will be according to a region's port facilities. Worlds with Highports will favor cheaper partial and dispersed hull ships.
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:05 pm

steve98052 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:58 pm
Within the Imperium, a starport is a system's primary port of entry, governed by the Imperial Starport Authority (or a local affiliate), with extraterritoriality. All other ports (if any) that serve spacecraft are spaceports, and operate under local rule.

A large, high population asteroid belt main-world might have hundreds or thousands of spaceports, because every populated world needs one. See the world book about Glisten for an example.

Outside the Imperium, a starport is still the term used for the primary port of entry. But details about management and law depend on the polity.

Can private entities build and operate a spaceport? That's up to the world (or national) government, and possibly also restricted by any interstellar polity with jurisdiction.
I know of newly built homes, where the builder also does road construction, and when completed, the local govevernment adopts the roads constructed, and it becomes public road maintained by the local government, I think a similar deal could be struck with the Imperium. If there is an uninhabited planet, then a local developer starts building homes for new colonists and then constructs a starport for the planet, and then sends in a application to get the starport adopted by the Imperium. That way the Imperium doesn't have to pay for the construction of the starport. I would say the Imperium likely doesn't construct most of the starports it operates, those are built by locals to meet their needs, and there are profit sharing agreements with the developer so they can get a return on their investment.
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby steve98052 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:06 pm

Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:05 pm
I know of newly built homes, where the builder also does road construction, and when completed, the local govevernment adopts the roads constructed, and it becomes public road maintained by the local government, I think a similar deal could be struck with the Imperium.
In my neighborhood, a developer used this to its advantage. There was a patch of land with a steep hill, and because of the switchbacks needed to satisfy street codes they could only fit five houses in the patch of land. So, they waited until the city's only (at the time) street code inspector went on vacation, laid the street straight up the hill, and dug and poured six foundations.

When the code inspector returned from vacation, he was not happy. He apparently didn't have the authority to order the cheating undone, and even the maximum fine cost the developer much less than the profits for adding the sixth house.
. . . I would say the Imperium likely doesn't construct most of the starports it operates, those are built by locals to meet their needs, and there are profit sharing agreements with the developer so they can get a return on their investment.
I don't think that's typically the case. There's a Class E Starport office module for modular cutters, and dropping one of those on a barren world and laying a slab is pretty simple.
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:20 pm

steve98052 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:06 pm
Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:05 pm
I know of newly built homes, where the builder also does road construction, and when completed, the local govevernment adopts the roads constructed, and it becomes public road maintained by the local government, I think a similar deal could be struck with the Imperium.
In my neighborhood, a developer used this to its advantage. There was a patch of land with a steep hill, and because of the switchbacks needed to satisfy street codes they could only fit five houses in the patch of land. So, they waited until the city's only (at the time) street code inspector went on vacation, laid the street straight up the hill, and dug and poured six foundations.

When the code inspector returned from vacation, he was not happy. He apparently didn't have the authority to order the cheating undone, and even the maximum fine cost the developer much less than the profits for adding the sixth house.
. . . I would say the Imperium likely doesn't construct most of the starports it operates, those are built by locals to meet their needs, and there are profit sharing agreements with the developer so they can get a return on their investment.
I don't think that's typically the case. There's a Class E Starport office module for modular cutters, and dropping one of those on a barren world and laying a slab is pretty simple.
But I think it is not the Imperium what class of starport there is. Lets suppose a developer lands at a Class E starport, and he wants to invest some money to turn it into a Class A starport, the Imperium doesn't want to do this, but the investor has money to burn and he thinks it would be a good investment to upgrade the class E starport into a class A starport, he see's plenty of profit potential but the Imperium does not. So what does this investor do if he wants to risk his own money but not the Imperium's to upgrade the Starport he finds?
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby Sigtrygg » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:22 pm

The Imperium is quite happy for a private investor to build or upgrade starport facilities, provided they continue to get their cut of the (now greater) profits. The new starport will have to be licenced by the Imperium - there's a kickback right there - and has to obey all Imperial regulations.


Worlds/starports that fail to comply will get a visit from the IN and if they still fail to cough up the creds and sign on the dotted line the IN will either interdict or enact regime change.
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby Condottiere » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:41 pm

Image

As I recall, the Imperium has an entire bureaucracy dedicated to administer and run starports.

Possibly the Imperium might extend a loan to the planetary authorities to construct one, and then contract a reliable and well connected Imperium corporation to build it to Imperium specifications.
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby AndrewW » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:46 pm

Condottiere wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:41 pm
As I recall, the Imperium has an entire bureaucracy dedicated to administer and run starports.
Starports wrote:iMperial starports
The vast majority of Starports in The Third Imperium are
managed by the Starport Authority – the SPA. Under their
guidance, travel between worlds remains a relatively safe and
reliable affair. People can get where they need to be and, more
importantly, trade continues to flow.
Condottiere
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby Condottiere » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:10 pm

There's an obvious certification process, from Epsilon to Alpha.

Since trade and maintaining lines of communication is the obvious intent, fees are mostly likely universal and homogeneous, with some exceptions, or possibly those facilities are run at a lose in the more remote corners of the Imperium.
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby phavoc » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:19 pm

AndrewW wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:46 pm
Condottiere wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:41 pm
As I recall, the Imperium has an entire bureaucracy dedicated to administer and run starports.
Starports wrote:iMperial starports
The vast majority of Starports in The Third Imperium are managed by the Starport Authority – the SPA. Under their guidance, travel between worlds remains a relatively safe and reliable affair. People can get where they need to be and, more importantly, trade continues to flow.
This makes sense from a narrative perspective, but it runs smack into the concept of the Imperium - that planets are free to do as they will. The definition of what a 'starport' is vs. what a 'spaceport' is hasn't been addressed either. The way the game flows there is only a single primary planet and starport in any system. For planets that aren't terribly happy with the Imperium they would not want to be controlled by the Imperials having the only starport in their system, or on their planet. Plus there will be numerous planets and stations that will also fall within this definition.

Logically it makes no sense to have a single starport servicing a large population on the planet. No matter how important it is, a single starport would not serve the needs of an entire industrialized world. That would be like Rotterdam being the only port that services all of Europe.
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby PsiTraveller » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:35 pm

Look at the Borderland profile for Inurin. Every nation has starports and calls out to incoming ships to attract them to land there. (pg 5) there is no officially designated main starport and every ship approaching will be bombarded with offers.

The moderatecorp Saxcorp is building a new Mainworld and will likely get that Starport recognized as the starport.

Inurin is outside the Imperium of course, but it shows the variety of starports and their interaction.
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby steve98052 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:35 pm

phavoc wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:19 pm
. . . The definition of what a 'starport' is vs. what a 'spaceport' is hasn't been addressed either. . . .
I'm pretty sure that the distinction is addressed in canon, at least for the Imperium: the starport is the mainworld port recognized by the Imperial Star Port Authority, and others are spaceports. The starport isn't necessarily a single facility. It may be a single highport and a single downport, or many of each. As I mentioned, Glisten has lots of places that are recognized as starport.

Of course if one doesn't like the idea of calling a starport comprised of many distinct facilities "the starport", there's nothing wrong with calling each a starport.
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby Linwood » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:23 pm

T5’s system creation process designates pretty much any facility not on the mainworld as a spaceport. I’m not really in agreement with that, but that’s one way to handle it.
Last edited by Linwood on Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
NOLATrav
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby NOLATrav » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:36 pm

For some reason I’m thinking about the old book Doomstar where incoming ships are subjected to the AdBand - a raucous endless stream of loud flashy ads for docking facilities, brokers, cargo lots, etc etc.

Maybe the Imperial facility is more equal than the rest. Or just has better discounts.
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Re: When is a starport not

Postby Sigtrygg » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:01 pm

A system can have as many spaceports to handle insystem traffic as it wants, some of them may even have shipyards or there may be separate shipyards for building government sponsored ships.

But if you want to be part of the Third Imperium:

there can only be one designated starport - it may have more than one orbital high port and more than one ground port

all interstellar trade must go through the starport so that Imperial taxes can applied

any interstellar craft making its way from jump to a spaceport better have charter documentation or proof it is not carrying passengers or cargo that carry an Imperial tax, smuggling is very frowned upon since it avoids the Imperial cut

Imperial registered civilian shipping can only be constructed and maintained at an Imperial registered starport - so that the correct taxes are collected

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