Players and their armor.

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Condottiere
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Condottiere » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:33 pm

Successful militaries tend to figure the best resource investment ratios.

On the microscale, characters will likely over invest in fire power and self preservation.
Tom Kalbfus
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:38 pm

Well if your dead, you haven't got anything. What would the Emperor Stephron wear if he went into battle? Suppose Stephron wasn't just a sit on the throne type, what if he wanted to personally lead his troops into battle? All his advisors would be howling in protest if he chose to do this, I bet.
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Hakkonen » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:13 pm

His government wouldn't let him. It's as simple as that. The Emperor is far too valuable to ever set foot on a battlefield, no matter how big his cojones. The Parliament (can't remember what it's called off the top of my head) and the military leadership would find a way to keep him safely in the palace.
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby steve98052 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:43 pm

If you're a Merchant with a weapons fetish -- something we see a lot in Traveller -- or mustered out military who just doesn't want to leave the firepower behind, there's always the gray market and black market. But those tend to be expensive.

So how do you gain legal access to military grade hardware? The best route is to seek a mercenary license. You don't even need to have any intention to go into front line combat.

Suppose you have a couple of people in your group with Battle Dress and PGMP skills. They're too old for combat, but not too old for training missions. They're not going to be able to train restless rabble into plasma troops unless you own the stuff yourself. Get a license for it and you're good. If the whole group is covered by the license, the trainers don't even have to cheat by signing for the weapons they want.

What if the make-up of the group doesn't add up to a mercenary company that does training? Maybe you can get licensed as a mercenary support services company instead transporting weapons from places where mercenaries are permitted to buy weapons, for personal use or for resale to local combatants not specifically forbidden from receiving them. Even if you're just a Merchant cargo master, if you're transporting supplies close a war zone, you can make a case for getting licensed to protect yourself.

The mercenary business is a well established part of Traveller. As long as you have a decent reputation and the right connections, why not get a license so you can just go to the local War-mart when you want some boom? Beats dealing with price-gouging, unsavory black marketeers.
Hakkonen wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:13 pm
His government wouldn't let him. It's as simple as that. The Emperor is far too valuable to ever set foot on a battlefield, no matter how big his cojones. The Parliament (can't remember what it's called off the top of my head) and the military leadership would find a way to keep him safely in the palace.
I'm not sure the Moot has the authority to overrule the Emperor if the Emperor decides go into battle in a meteoric assault capsule leading a battalion of Marines.

And if an emperor's judgment declined to the point where he went to the front of a war zone, I'm not sure the Moot would want to stop him, as long as the line of succession was clear.

Also, I see a lot of military tradition in the nobility of the Imperium. Archduke Norris served in the Imperial Navy while second in line to becoming Duke of Regina, and reached the rank of commander before he rose to first in line and had to resign.

Imperial nobility are more like British royalty, who have a strong military tradition, rather than US politicians, who don't often have military backgrounds and more. (Theo often had military backgrounds in times when larger proportions of the population served in the military, but military service is uncommon now.)
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:02 am

Hakkonen wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:13 pm
His government wouldn't let him. It's as simple as that. The Emperor is far too valuable to ever set foot on a battlefield, no matter how big his cojones. The Parliament (can't remember what it's called off the top of my head) and the military leadership would find a way to keep him safely in the palace.
Ironic considering that a lot of Roman Emperors got their start as Generals leading troops into battle.
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:06 am

steve98052 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:43 pm
If you're a Merchant with a weapons fetish -- something we see a lot in Traveller -- or mustered out military who just doesn't want to leave the firepower behind, there's always the gray market and black market. But those tend to be expensive.

So how do you gain legal access to military grade hardware? The best route is to seek a mercenary license. You don't even need to have any intention to go into front line combat.

Suppose you have a couple of people in your group with Battle Dress and PGMP skills. They're too old for combat, but not too old for training missions. They're not going to be able to train restless rabble into plasma troops unless you own the stuff yourself. Get a license for it and you're good. If the whole group is covered by the license, the trainers don't even have to cheat by signing for the weapons they want.

What if the make-up of the group doesn't add up to a mercenary company that does training? Maybe you can get licensed as a mercenary support services company instead transporting weapons from places where mercenaries are permitted to buy weapons, for personal use or for resale to local combatants not specifically forbidden from receiving them. Even if you're just a Merchant cargo master, if you're transporting supplies close a war zone, you can make a case for getting licensed to protect yourself.

The mercenary business is a well established part of Traveller. As long as you have a decent reputation and the right connections, why not get a license so you can just go to the local War-mart when you want some boom? Beats dealing with price-gouging, unsavory black marketeers.
Hakkonen wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:13 pm
His government wouldn't let him. It's as simple as that. The Emperor is far too valuable to ever set foot on a battlefield, no matter how big his cojones. The Parliament (can't remember what it's called off the top of my head) and the military leadership would find a way to keep him safely in the palace.
I'm not sure the Moot has the authority to overrule the Emperor if the Emperor decides go into battle in a meteoric assault capsule leading a battalion of Marines.

And if an emperor's judgment declined to the point where he went to the front of a war zone, I'm not sure the Moot would want to stop him, as long as the line of succession was clear.

Also, I see a lot of military tradition in the nobility of the Imperium. Archduke Norris served in the Imperial Navy while second in line to becoming Duke of Regina, and reached the rank of commander before he rose to first in line and had to resign.

Imperial nobility are more like British royalty, who have a strong military tradition, rather than US politicians, who don't often have military backgrounds and more. (Theo often had military backgrounds in times when larger proportions of the population served in the military, but military service is uncommon now.)
The Emperor in Star Wars gets his hands dirty, he goes into combat, why should we assume that the Emperor of the Imperium is an "effite throne sitter?"
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Hakkonen » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:22 am

steve98052 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:43 pm
I'm not sure the Moot has the authority to overrule the Emperor if the Emperor decides go into battle in a meteoric assault capsule leading a battalion of Marines.
Whether the Moot has the legal authority is a... ahem... moot point. No politician worth his pork barrel is going to let an enemy be able to say that they killed the Emperor, line of succession be damned. Not only is such a loss of face unthinkable, there's also the ensuing morale crisis, both in the military and the populace at large. So, the Moot and/or some subset of its members will arrange things such that the Emperor is either persuaded or... persuaded to stay safely in the Capitol.
Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:06 am
The Emperor in Star Wars gets his hands dirty, he goes into combat, why should we assume that the Emperor of the Imperium is an "effite throne sitter?"
He most certainly does not go into combat. The closest he gets to an actual battle is watching from the throne room aboard the Death Star II, from such a distance that the capital ships involved are invisible to the naked eye.
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:13 pm

Hakkonen wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:22 am
steve98052 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:43 pm
I'm not sure the Moot has the authority to overrule the Emperor if the Emperor decides go into battle in a meteoric assault capsule leading a battalion of Marines.
Whether the Moot has the legal authority is a... ahem... moot point. No politician worth his pork barrel is going to let an enemy be able to say that they killed the Emperor, line of succession be damned. Not only is such a loss of face unthinkable, there's also the ensuing morale crisis, both in the military and the populace at large. So, the Moot and/or some subset of its members will arrange things such that the Emperor is either persuaded or... persuaded to stay safely in the Capitol.
Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:06 am
The Emperor in Star Wars gets his hands dirty, he goes into combat, why should we assume that the Emperor of the Imperium is an "effite throne sitter?"
He most certainly does not go into combat. The closest he gets to an actual battle is watching from the throne room aboard the Death Star II, from such a distance that the capital ships involved are invisible to the naked eye.
I guess you didn't see his dual with Yoda in Revenge of the Sith, and he was killed by Darth Vader, and he could shoot lightning from his finger tips.

Also Stephron had clones!
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby JMISBEST » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:02 pm

steve98052 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:43 pm
If you're a Merchant with a weapons fetish -- something we see a lot in Traveller -- or mustered out military who just doesn't want to leave the firepower behind, there's always the gray market and black market. But those tend to be expensive.

So how do you gain legal access to military grade hardware? The best route is to seek a mercenary license. You don't even need to have any intention to go into front line combat.

Suppose you have a couple of people in your group with Battle Dress and PGMP skills. They're too old for combat, but not too old for training missions. They're not going to be able to train restless rabble into plasma troops unless you own the stuff yourself. Get a license for it and you're good. If the whole group is covered by the license, the trainers don't even have to cheat by signing for the weapons they want.

What if the make-up of the group doesn't add up to a mercenary company that does training? Maybe you can get licensed as a mercenary support services company instead transporting weapons from places where mercenaries are permitted to buy weapons, for personal use or for resale to local combatants not specifically forbidden from receiving them. Even if you're just a Merchant cargo master, if you're transporting supplies close a war zone, you can make a case for getting licensed to protect yourself.

The mercenary business is a well established part of Traveller. As long as you have a decent reputation and the right connections, why not get a license so you can just go to the local War-mart when you want some boom? Beats dealing with price-gouging, unsavory black marketeers.
Hakkonen wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:13 pm
His government wouldn't let him. It's as simple as that. The Emperor is far too valuable to ever set foot on a battlefield, no matter how big his cojones. The Parliament (can't remember what it's called off the top of my head) and the military leadership would find a way to keep him safely in the palace.
I'm not sure the Moot has the authority to overrule the Emperor if the Emperor decides go into battle in a meteoric assault capsule leading a battalion of Marines.

And if an emperor's judgment declined to the point where he went to the front of a war zone, I'm not sure the Moot would want to stop him, as long as the line of succession was clear.

Also, I see a lot of military tradition in the nobility of the Imperium. Archduke Norris served in the Imperial Navy while second in line to becoming Duke of Regina, and reached the rank of commander before he rose to first in line and had to resign.

Imperial nobility are more like British royalty, who have a strong military tradition, rather than US politicians, who don't often have military backgrounds and more. (Theo often had military backgrounds in times when larger proportions of the population served in the military, but military service is uncommon now.)
But don't forget that in some campaigns some places could have entire subsectors of mostly corrupt politicians, but in a mini nation based on America it'd be at most 2 or 3 adjacent Star Systems out of a empire of at least 30 that are or where entirely corrupt
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:21 pm

Or you could set the Game in the New Era, when there was no Imperium.
Condottiere
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Condottiere » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:23 pm

Image

Palpatine was hands on, but usually only when his presence was required to further the plot.

He was also psionic and had close combat experience.


The Imperium probably has a Tigress battleship squadron exclusively reserved to protect the Emperor, whether as planetary defence or to escort him when he tours the provinces; if he believes his presence is critical during a specific combat operation, undoubtedly that squadron gets heavily reinforced with escorts.
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Linwood » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:35 am

Allowing your Emperor (or his insane heir) to go charging recklessly into battle is a great way to assassinate him/her. Just ask Prince Serg of Barrayar....
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:03 pm

Linwood wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:35 am
Allowing your Emperor (or his insane heir) to go charging recklessly into battle is a great way to assassinate him/her. Just ask Prince Serg of Barrayar....
Well you know, I'm an American, I come from a country that seperated itself from the British Empire and King George III. So if the Emperor goes charging into battle and gets himself killed, I just shrug my shoulders. I should note, that the founder of my country, George Washington, led a lot of troops into battle on horseback and he carried a sword, King George the Third never did the same with his red coats. It is frankly amazing that George Washington was never wounded in battle, though he lost a few horses. King George the Third never came to American to lead his troops personally, yet the other George put his life in danger along with those of his men. So what do you think, was George Washington insane?
Image
Hakkonen
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Hakkonen » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:09 pm

Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:13 pm
I guess you didn't see his dual with Yoda in Revenge of the Sith, and he was killed by Darth Vader, and he could shoot lightning from his finger tips.
Yoda snuck into the Senate and tried to assassinate Sidious; Sidious didn't go looking for him. Getting killed by Darth Vader was very much against Sidious' plans. There is no point in any of the movies at which Darth Sidious intends to place himself in the line of fire.
Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:03 pm
So what do you think, was George Washington insane?
It's important to remember that 1) At that time, it was normal for generals to take the field, and 2) George Washington wasn't President when he did so. But go on grasping at straws.
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Geir » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:30 am

Hakkonen wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:09 pm
Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:13 pm
I guess you didn't see his dual with Yoda in Revenge of the Sith, and he was killed by Darth Vader, and he could shoot lightning from his finger tips.
Yoda snuck into the Senate and tried to assassinate Sidious; Sidious didn't go looking for him. Getting killed by Darth Vader was very much against Sidious' plans. There is no point in any of the movies at which Darth Sidious intends to place himself in the line of fire.
Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:03 pm
So what do you think, was George Washington insane?
It's important to remember that 1) At that time, it was normal for generals to take the field, and 2) George Washington wasn't President when he did so. But go on grasping at straws.
Actual George Washington did lead troops into battle as President. Whiskey Rebellion, October 1794. Sorry, I'm a History major, can't help but get pedantic and my mind is cluttered with useless crap.
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:18 am

George Washington was the defacto leader as General of the Continental Army as well, he was the leader of the Revolution, he was in command of the Continental Army, and it was that Continental Army along with the help of the French that beat the British at the Battle of Yorktown. George Washington also deferred to the Continental Congress and set the precident of the military being subordinate to the civilian government. The soldiers obeyed his orders, there was a time when the soldiers were thinking of going to Philadelphia and getting their back pay through force of arms. George Washington put a stop to that, a lesser man would have simply used his leadership to make himself dictator of the country. Napoleon did that, as did Oliver Cromwell. Immediate problems are easier to solve if one does not have to defer to a legislative body, but George Washington resisted the temptation, and it is because of him that we have a constitutional republic. He also believed in setting a good example for his troops, he put himself in danger and he led troops into battle, rather than sit in some nice safe place and strategize with his subordinates, as a King might do.

King Richard the Lion Hearted led troops into battle as did Richard the Third, Julius Caesar, and Alexander the Great, they wanted to be where the action was, and so did George Washington. King George the Third didn't get on a horse and lead the British Regulars to battle the Continental Army, he was more or a remote leader. Maybe the British Regulars would have fought harder if they had a warrior king that marched with them rather than a remote figure that sat on his throne. Great Britain had some great Monarchs, but King George the Third wasn't among those.

So what kind was Stephron? Was he the sort to lead his men into battle of did he just sit on the throne and let his generals take care of it all and report to him? Was he more of a "Richard the Lion-hearted" or a "King George the Third"?
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Hakkonen » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:10 am

In great Cthulhu's unholy name, get it through your head: no modern chief executive, whatever his or her title, would be allowed to go into battle. They are simply too important to the state to be permitted to appear on a battlefield in person. Even President Trump, if he wanted to lead an MEU into Iran himself (and don't think that vainglorious, draft-dodging chickenhawk hasn't fantasized about it), would not be permitted to do so. By hook or by crook, by legislation or backroom maneuvering, his government would prevent him.

If you want to portray the Imperium's upper echelons as a pack of ass-grabbing incompetents and yes-men, I can't stop you. But if you brought this idea to my table, it would be my pleasure and my privilege to beat some sense into you with the core rulebook.
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Geir » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:27 am

Hakkonen wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:10 am
In great Cthulhu's unholy name, get it through your head: no modern chief executive, whatever his or her title, would be allowed to go into battle. T
Hey, come on, in the OTU, the Emperors of the Flag fought in battle and died in battle.

In the real world, Emperor Napoleon III fought (or wandered around aimlessly until he was captured) at the Battle of Sedan in 1870, and King Albert I of Belgium fought for a time on the front lines during World War I.
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Condottiere » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:07 am

In 1777, Ferguson went to the colonies to serve in the American War of Independence; commanding an experimental rifle corps equipped with his new rifle. However, after initial success, he was shot through the right elbow joint at the Battle of Brandywine on 11 September 1777 in Pennsylvania. Shortly before, he had had the chance to shoot a prominent American officer, accompanied by another in distinctive hussar dress, but decided not to do so, as the man had his back to him (Ferguson) and was unaware of his presence. A surgeon told Ferguson in the hospital that some American casualties had said that General Washington had been in the area at the time. Ferguson wrote that, even if the officer were the general, he did not regret his decision. The officer's identity remains uncertain; historians suggest that the aide in hussar dress might indicate the senior officer was Count Casimir Pulaski.

A lot of sovereigns accompanied their men into battle, and even fought at the frontline.

For Caesar, his presence at critical times probably did turn the tide of battle.

Augustus famously had Agrippa fly his flag on a Q ship, so Anthony could go chase after that.
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby paltrysum » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:16 pm

Hakkonen wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:10 am
In great Cthulhu's unholy name, get it through your head: no modern chief executive, whatever his or her title, would be allowed to go into battle. They are simply too important to the state to be permitted to appear on a battlefield in person. Even President Trump, if he wanted to lead an MEU into Iran himself (and don't think that vainglorious, draft-dodging chickenhawk hasn't fantasized about it), would not be permitted to do so. By hook or by crook, by legislation or backroom maneuvering, his government would prevent him.
And if you want to play that out in your Traveller game using 28mm miniatures, Hasslefree has just the miniature for you:

https://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product= ... moderns%2A
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