Players and their armor.

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
steve98052
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby steve98052 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:32 pm

On the matter of personal appearances of emperors in battle, note that Arbellatra concluded the Emperors of the Flag era as Grand Admiral by leading defeat of Emperor Gustus, after which the Moot proclaimed her regent, and later Emperor.

She was great×9 grandmother of Strephon, or eleven generations earlier (and eleven emperors earlier, including one sibling succession and one grandchild succession).

Eleven generations (or five centuries) into our past takes us to sailing ships, but from the time of Arbellatra to the time to Strephon, the Imperium upgraded its Navy from Jump-3 to Jump-4. It's not clear what the Imperial maximum TL was while Arbellatra ruled; it may have had the ability to build beyond Jump-3 but didn't. The Strephon era Imperium can build Jump-6 ships, but Imperial Navy standard is Jump-4, presumably as a tradeoff of strategic mobility for firepower and tactical maneuver.

Additionally, during the Rebellion timeline, every person claiming to be Emperor personally led combat. In the Imperium, leading battles in person happens. They may not lead planetary invasions from horseback, but they lead fleets from flagships.

If Strephon never lead a fleet in person, it was not because he wasn't allowed. It was because the conflicts that were important enough to justify the attention of the Emperor were too far from Capitol to get to, and major subordinates stood in, such as then-Duke, later-Archduke Norris, who was in charge of the latter part of the Fifth Frontier War.

How did we get onto this tangent again?
Saladman
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Saladman » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:42 pm

Hakkonen wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:10 am
In great Cthulhu's unholy name, get it through your head: no modern chief executive, whatever his or her title, would be allowed to go into battle. They are simply too important to the state to be permitted to appear on a battlefield in person. Even President Trump, if he wanted to lead an MEU into Iran himself (and don't think that vainglorious, draft-dodging chickenhawk hasn't fantasized about it), would not be permitted to do so. By hook or by crook, by legislation or backroom maneuvering, his government would prevent him.

If you want to portray the Imperium's upper echelons as a pack of ass-grabbing incompetents and yes-men, I can't stop you. But if you brought this idea to my table, it would be my pleasure and my privilege to beat some sense into you with the core rulebook.
That's one way to run it, but the rest of us will be running in science fiction settings, rather than thinly disguised 21st century First World nations.
Sigtrygg
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Sigtrygg » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:45 pm

"Your Imperial Majesty, the Zhodani have invaded the Spinward Marches"
'Ready my personal gold encrusted battle shorts and mobilise my Sylea BatRon'
"At once your Imperial Majesty"...

Two years later...
'Hail Spinward Marches battlefleets, this is your Emperor, prepare to be lead to victory'

"Umm, the war ended last year numbnuts"

And a bit of Imperial history from MWM's novel, the Imperium had jump 5 cruisers and jump 6 couriers as far back as the 700s...
Condottiere
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Condottiere » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:42 pm

If you have a spare, you can send off the heir to acquire combat experience, and secure the respect and loyalty of the military.
Hakkonen
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Hakkonen » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:53 am

Saladman wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:42 pm
That's one way to run it, but the rest of us will be running in science fiction settings, rather than thinly disguised 21st century First World nations.
That thing that just flew over your head? That was my point.
Linwood
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Linwood » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:31 pm

In the end it will all depend on how you view the Imperial culture. If you view it as militaristic then maybe the Emperor would feel obligated to show leadership on the battlefield. If Imperial culture is more bureaucratic (or business/corporate?) then leading the fleet is someone else’s problem and all the Emperor has to do is pick the right sophont for the job.

There’s also the Starship Troopers option - screw up as Emperor and you end up a grunt in the next ground assault....
Sigtrygg
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Sigtrygg » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:29 pm

Perhaps I made my earlier post too vague - how the f*&()k does the emperor lead from the front when the first he/she hears of the war it is already a year and a half to two years old and by the time he/she can get to the battle it is all over?
Tom Kalbfus
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:30 pm

Sigtrygg wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:29 pm
Perhaps I made my earlier post too vague - how the f*&()k does the emperor lead from the front when the first he/she hears of the war it is already a year and a half to two years old and by the time he/she can get to the battle it is all over?
There is nothing that says that all wars have to be short and over in a few months. When the Emperor finally does get to the front, he can lead from the front, and who's to say that the Emepror spends all his time at the Capitol , and he doesn't travel around his empire in a mobile palace (aka starship)? Emperor PAlpatine traveled around his Empire too, he didn't stay in Coruscant, and he didn't die there either!
Geir
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Geir » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:54 pm

Sigtrygg wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:29 pm
Perhaps I made my earlier post too vague - how the f*&()k does the emperor lead from the front when the first he/she hears of the war it is already a year and a half to two years old and by the time he/she can get to the battle it is all over?
Very true, but it helps differentiate when leading from the front is useful and it all comes down to communications.
In 21st Century Earth it makes zero sense to lead from the front, because the President can sit in the basement and watch a SEAL team take out bin Laden in real-time (okay, maybe a fraction of a second delay bouncing off a couple of satellites , but close enough for orders and information to pass even at the tactical level.)
In a frontier war in something the size of the Imperium, it also makes no sense since it would rightly be extremely unlikely that the Emperor's personal presence, even if he was a tactical or strategic genius, would be timely.

Where it might make sense is in a conflict within a sector's distance from the Emperor, like during the Civil War or Rebellion eras. Communications are limited to ship speed, so strategic and tactical decisions from a sector back might not be as useful as those a week or two behind the battle, and an Emperor as battle commander could make sense if that was his skill set. However, even then, he'd never leave his flagship unless he was evacuating from a burning wreck.

Which gets back to the original topic. In all those scenarios, the Emperor's armor is irrelevant. And I don't see the big deal about dealing with players that have Battledress. A gauss rifle firing APDS ammo has a penetration of 17, which can get through almost any armor, at least after damage is computed. I like the AP rules, as it does separate penetration and damage close enough to be reasonable. And a PGMP can do 60 points of damage on a good roll. A disposable plasma launcher or a fusion gun does 2DD, so 70 on average. That's what someone in Battledress should be up against in any balanced campaign. And even if you're just stealing chickens from peasants, a deep TL0 pit trap will get you if you don't have Grav Assist; only idiots and Ewoks would shoot at you with arrows.
Condottiere
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby Condottiere » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:31 pm

You guys maybe thinking reactionary defensive war.

Then there's imperialistic campaigns designed to distract from problems at home.
JMISBEST
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Re: Players and their armor.

Postby JMISBEST » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:47 pm

Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:30 pm
Sigtrygg wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:29 pm
Perhaps I made my earlier post too vague - how the f*&()k does the emperor lead from the front when the first he/she hears of the war it is already a year and a half to two years old and by the time he/she can get to the battle it is all over?
There is nothing that says that all wars have to be short and over in a few months. When the Emperor finally does get to the front, he can lead from the front, and who's to say that the Emepror spends all his time at the Capitol , and he doesn't travel around his empire in a mobile palace (aka starship)? Emperor PAlpatine traveled around his Empire too, he didn't stay in Coruscant, and he didn't die there either!
True but he was very old even at the Time of Revenge of The Sith and Return of The Jedi was at least 21 years later. Maybe he was senile or had dementia or even both and that/those contributed in some way to him making the mistakes that cost him his life and set in motion the events that, in Canon, eventually caused The Empire to lose the war and later lose a lot of its world to The Alliances Version of A Second Republic?

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